|
Post by jonas on Sept 29, 2016 0:39:11 GMT -8
I don't understand why people say this. GURPS is not hard to understand. They can sum their rules up to 32 pages. Try that with D&D some time and let me know how it goes. There is even a more Lite version than the free Lite called Ultra Lite. I haven't looked at it, but one assumes it is smaller. This. GURPS was actually the first system I managed to understand on my own. With all other systems, I was sitting and wondering why wizards couldn't use armor, warriors couldn't cast spells and why all elves were gluten intolerant. Getting handed GURPS Lite for the first time, I finally saw that rpgs weren't some weird kind of boardgame where you had to talk funny - it was a way to simulate stories. Just don't give a new player GURPS Vehicles as his or her first book. That tome kills babies.
|
|
|
Post by ayslyn on Sept 29, 2016 4:54:35 GMT -8
D&D does it in 32 pages as well, but through an adventure.
GURPS is complicated not because the basic mechanic is hard to grasp (roll 3d6 vs a target number) Hell, D&D's basic mechanic is just as easy (roll 1d20 vs a target number). GURPS is complicated because of all the modules that make it so flexible, that add in so many little rules, and modifiers all over the place. It's the reason that Mook wrote a flowchart for combat. It's the reason said flowchart is so popular.
It's a simple fact. The more bells and whistles and modules you add, the more the complexity goes up. Now, some can grok that easier than others, and that's awesome. But that doesn't make it less complicated, just easier for you to understand.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2016 21:37:28 GMT -8
D&D does it in 32 pages as well, but through an adventure. GURPS is complicated not because the basic mechanic is hard to grasp (roll 3d6 vs a target number) Hell, D&D's basic mechanic is just as easy (roll 1d20 vs a target number). GURPS is complicated because of all the modules that make it so flexible, that add in so many little rules, and modifiers all over the place. It's the reason that Mook wrote a flowchart for combat. It's the reason said flowchart is so popular. It's a simple fact. The more bells and whistles and modules you add, the more the complexity goes up. Now, some can grok that easier than others, and that's awesome. But that doesn't make it less complicated, just easier for you to understand. To be complex is defined as, "consisting of many different and connected parts." Thus we look at GURPS and there are indeed many parts... but how different/connected are they? I'd argue not so much. You see, a core part of any universal roleplaying game is the GM taking the whole list of options and pairing it down to just what is needed for the game in question. Historical fantasy games don't need rules for magic or super powers. Really you can slash off everything supernatural right away. The GM could then decide what level of realism they are striving for, which could inform what skills will remain on the skill list and how many points are to be doled out, etc. Mook has a whole writup in his book about defining the game. That process takes the "everything but the kitchen sink" that GURPS has down to a manageable level. From a complexity angle, I just don't see it. The system itself is simple and doesn't use a great deal of contrived (figured) stats. D&D has more complexity just to figure out your touch, flatfoot, and normal AC. Newer editions still beat out gurps for the number of skills. Granted a good deal of GURPS skills work the same, just for different subsections (Axe/mace, broadsword, and dagger all function the same). Overall though, I don't find GURPS difficult in the sense of understanding the game. My difficulty, which propped up last night, is making a character that I think will be a good fit for my group. Since our game is lighter on the combat and doesn't have as much unity between the players, I have to fight my instincts to make a party character and instead make one that covers what he needs on his own. I'm looking forward to it, its just taking a change of perspective.
|
|
maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
Favorite Species of Monkey: Proboscis
|
Post by maxinstuff on Sept 29, 2016 21:44:12 GMT -8
My difficulty, which propped up last night, is making a character that I think will be a good fit for my group. Since our game is lighter on the combat and doesn't have as much unity between the players, I have to fight my instincts to make a party character and instead make one that covers what he needs on his own. I'm looking forward to it, its just taking a change of perspective. Just be careful with this. It is perfectly fine to have a broad overlap of skills between PC's (look at a Navy Seal Team for example) - but make sure that each character still has their own specialties that they really excel at.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2016 22:07:32 GMT -8
My difficulty, which propped up last night, is making a character that I think will be a good fit for my group. Since our game is lighter on the combat and doesn't have as much unity between the players, I have to fight my instincts to make a party character and instead make one that covers what he needs on his own. I'm looking forward to it, its just taking a change of perspective. Just be careful with this. It is perfectly fine to have a broad overlap of skills between PC's (look at a Navy Seal Team for example) - but make sure that each character still has their own specialties that they really excel at. No worries there. I've seen all the other characters, and none of them are well balanced. Lots of people with high IQ only. While I don't intend to be stupid, just being physically capable will set me apart.
|
|
|
Post by Kenigma23 on Sept 30, 2016 12:11:17 GMT -8
D&D does it in 32 pages as well, but through an adventure. GURPS is complicated not because the basic mechanic is hard to grasp (roll 3d6 vs a target number) Hell, D&D's basic mechanic is just as easy (roll 1d20 vs a target number). GURPS is complicated because of all the modules that make it so flexible, that add in so many little rules, and modifiers all over the place. It's the reason that Mook wrote a flowchart for combat. It's the reason said flowchart is so popular. It's a simple fact. The more bells and whistles and modules you add, the more the complexity goes up. Now, some can grok that easier than others, and that's awesome. But that doesn't make it less complicated, just easier for you to understand. I always thought it was a marvel they got it to 32 pages (GURPS Lite) there is an even smaller version called “Ultralight” but that’s insane. I think Steve got drunk and did it on a dare… The 32 pages is a nice intro but I’d hardly call it the full game. What makes GURPS easy to understand is everything you just said (so I won’t repeated it). But it is harder for many (not all) to master is the subtlety to many of the rules. Of course the beauty of the game is that you can ignore all that and still have a good time. But just the two “basic” books is over 500 pages and that’s a lot to take in. Then you add on the additional books depending on what game you’re playing and you can have 100s or thousands more to consider. I think I operate, typically, with the Basic books and Martial arts then add in Magic and low tech (if fantasy). Or add in high-tech if modern and probably horror just because that’s how I role. If I’m doing future I probably have ultra-tech and Space for sure… Then there are all the PDFs that get heavy use as well. It is a lot for the average player to take in and most people these days seem to be more casual players… so expecting them to read or even remember all the rules is A LOT (in my opinion) to ask. Fortunately I’ve been playing GURPS for almost 30 years (GOD I’m old…) so I just ‘know’ all the rules so my players don’t have to…. Unless they want to know them (which I encourage). Where was I going with this? Oh yeah… It is a complicated game, but not an unapproachable one and certainly not an unrewarding one. I love the detail in the game, it is the closest thing I’ve seen to a “reality simulator” in RPG.
|
|
|
Post by ayslyn on Oct 1, 2016 8:24:21 GMT -8
Certainly.
I would say that it's comparable to Monopoly. The base game (which almost no one actually plays) is incredibly easy, and quick. Add in all those house rules and the game gets more and more complicated. Not impossible, but more so than it was.
HERO is similar. The first time I played HERO, my (well meaning) GM threw in all those optional combat rules, resulting in a simple combat taking hours.
|
|
|
Post by Kenigma23 on Oct 4, 2016 7:59:47 GMT -8
Certainly. I would say that it's comparable to Monopoly. The base game (which almost no one actually plays) is incredibly easy, and quick. Add in all those house rules and the game gets more and more complicated. Not impossible, but more so than it was. HERO is similar. The first time I played HERO, my (well meaning) GM threw in all those optional combat rules, resulting in a simple combat taking hours. Yeah, I love all the extras but it is a double edged sword for sure.
|
|
|
Post by akavidar on Aug 4, 2017 16:56:36 GMT -8
I just got an update on GURPS Fantasy box set, It should be loaded on a boat in China next week and be coming our way soon. But, in more current news, Steve Jackson Games will be doing Demo's of the game at GenCon in booth 1413. Hear/See that Stu Venable?
|
|
jeffrywith1e
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 182
Preferred Game Systems: Pathfinder, BRP, d20 Modern
Currently Playing: Pathfinder
Currently Running: OpenQuest
Favorite Species of Monkey: gone to heaven
|
Post by jeffrywith1e on May 12, 2018 4:50:33 GMT -8
So now that the product isn't so new anymore, how do we like it?
Do we suppose there'll be more of these boxsets someday? Or was this a failed experiment?
|
|
|
Post by greatwyrm on May 13, 2018 14:29:37 GMT -8
It doesn't look very good. From the 2017 Stakeholder Report:
I'd heard things about trying to do the same idea with Space Opera for GURPS, but I honestly don't keep up on SJG enough to know if that's still a thing or not.
|
|