Crunch, Fluff, and Grit
Apr 17, 2012 11:42:49 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2012 11:42:49 GMT -8
I was listening to S7E9 and wanted to know if the term 'grit' was a local thing?
Our spectrums when talking about games are:
Grit ---- GM Arbitration
Crunch ---- Simplicity
Fluff-dependent ---- Bare-bone mechanics
Grit: the mechanics by which a player influences the game without recourse to subjective arbitration. GURPS is 100% grit; nothing cannot be decided with a roll and there are tables full of situation modifiers. FATE is gritty but requires the GM to okay the exact use of a skill and the necessary modifiers. AD&D has mildly gritty combat (assuming you are being very straight forward with attacks) but very little social grit (none compared to more recent systems).
Crunch: crunchy is like busty; "if you ever feel like you’re encumbered by your breasts (if they ever get in your way, make you feel awkward, etc.) then you’re busty! There isn’t a line where one size is busty and the next size isn’t." Crunch, as I've internalized it, is when the grit starts getting awkward and interferes with the enjoyment of the game. Number crunching games are more likely to experience that "in the way" feeling than simpler games. A game with a steep learning curve could begin as crunchy but then get less crunchy. GURPS, when using the complete rules, is our classical example of a very crunchy system. Inquisitor is another crunchy system. Nobilis is not a crunchy system at all. Note that crunch is thus subjective (for example, at this point in my RPGing I no longer consider GURPS to be too crunchy because I have more experience with it and know it's pitfalls) or perhaps I should say that crunch can be mitigated through experience and player-based work arounds (not to be confused with reach arounds) such as having two character sheets for a super-suit super hero or pre-calculating to hit roll modifier and damage modifier for every melee weapon versus armor type in a game.
Fluff: the non-mechanical information needed for a mechanical system to make sense.
FATE is a bare-bones system; the effect mechanics are completely independent of cause. Tagging an aspect has the same effect whatever the aspect was, the to hit roll is 4dF+Skill where skill is cause but effect is the same no matter the skill. My only experience with a diceless system is Nobilis so that's how I think of a fluffy system: you cannot fairly arbitrate the power levels of stats without an understanding of what each represents in the game's universe (Aspect 3 can do this; like Achilles universally outfighting Hector or Domain 5 can do this; like completely reordering your Chancel in response to your mood). Using the mechanics for another setting would require readjusting the baselines for what the stats do.
Games can be extremely gritty but simple (or elegant, whatever you want to call it) or crunchy and not gritty (Mutant Chronicles, oh jeez, why...). The fluff-dependence is usually only an issue when playing a system designed for a specific niche setting.
[edit] Thought of a good example for fluff-dependence. The rules for Burning Wheel are independent of fluff (but not of feel, another topic) but the life paths are not. [/edit]
Anyone else have any 'local' jargon they use that makes talking about games simpler?
Our spectrums when talking about games are:
Grit ---- GM Arbitration
Crunch ---- Simplicity
Fluff-dependent ---- Bare-bone mechanics
Grit: the mechanics by which a player influences the game without recourse to subjective arbitration. GURPS is 100% grit; nothing cannot be decided with a roll and there are tables full of situation modifiers. FATE is gritty but requires the GM to okay the exact use of a skill and the necessary modifiers. AD&D has mildly gritty combat (assuming you are being very straight forward with attacks) but very little social grit (none compared to more recent systems).
Crunch: crunchy is like busty; "if you ever feel like you’re encumbered by your breasts (if they ever get in your way, make you feel awkward, etc.) then you’re busty! There isn’t a line where one size is busty and the next size isn’t." Crunch, as I've internalized it, is when the grit starts getting awkward and interferes with the enjoyment of the game. Number crunching games are more likely to experience that "in the way" feeling than simpler games. A game with a steep learning curve could begin as crunchy but then get less crunchy. GURPS, when using the complete rules, is our classical example of a very crunchy system. Inquisitor is another crunchy system. Nobilis is not a crunchy system at all. Note that crunch is thus subjective (for example, at this point in my RPGing I no longer consider GURPS to be too crunchy because I have more experience with it and know it's pitfalls) or perhaps I should say that crunch can be mitigated through experience and player-based work arounds (not to be confused with reach arounds) such as having two character sheets for a super-suit super hero or pre-calculating to hit roll modifier and damage modifier for every melee weapon versus armor type in a game.
Fluff: the non-mechanical information needed for a mechanical system to make sense.
FATE is a bare-bones system; the effect mechanics are completely independent of cause. Tagging an aspect has the same effect whatever the aspect was, the to hit roll is 4dF+Skill where skill is cause but effect is the same no matter the skill. My only experience with a diceless system is Nobilis so that's how I think of a fluffy system: you cannot fairly arbitrate the power levels of stats without an understanding of what each represents in the game's universe (Aspect 3 can do this; like Achilles universally outfighting Hector or Domain 5 can do this; like completely reordering your Chancel in response to your mood). Using the mechanics for another setting would require readjusting the baselines for what the stats do.
Games can be extremely gritty but simple (or elegant, whatever you want to call it) or crunchy and not gritty (Mutant Chronicles, oh jeez, why...). The fluff-dependence is usually only an issue when playing a system designed for a specific niche setting.
[edit] Thought of a good example for fluff-dependence. The rules for Burning Wheel are independent of fluff (but not of feel, another topic) but the life paths are not. [/edit]
Anyone else have any 'local' jargon they use that makes talking about games simpler?