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Post by retrosuperhero on Apr 18, 2012 11:08:42 GMT -8
Picked this up a week or two ago. I've ran two sessions with it and I have to say - it is good! I like the narrative play and the lack of minis. With the right group I could highly recommend it.
I like the dice mechanics and I love the idea of a "Doom Pool" that grows as the adventure moves on.
On the downside if you have uncreative or unengaged players I can see this falling flat.
I know this is another "cortex - knockoff" but I've never played any of their other Cortex-based games - it seems to work well for a supers rpg.
Anyone else had any experience with this?
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Post by jazzisblues on Apr 18, 2012 11:24:18 GMT -8
Picked this up a week or two ago. I've ran two sessions with it and I have to say - it is good! I like the narrative play and the lack of minis. With the right group I could highly recommend it. I like the dice mechanics and I love the idea of a "Doom Pool" that grows as the adventure moves on. On the downside if you have uncreative or unengaged players I can see this falling flat. I know this is another "cortex - knockoff" but I've never played any of their other Cortex-based games - it seems to work well for a supers rpg. I've seen it and been tempted to buy it if nothing else for the fluff that goes with it. I've resisted because (a) I don't run supers very often (actually I don't know that I've ever run a supers game) and (b) I have other systems I can use if I want to run a supers game. Everything I've heard about it is very complimentary. Cheers, JiB Anyone else had any experience with this?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2012 13:54:11 GMT -8
I'm planning on buying it once it actually makes its way over to the UK, I'm a big fan of Cortex in general and like what they've been doing with the adapting the games to the genre.
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HyveMynd
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Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
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Post by HyveMynd on Apr 18, 2012 18:38:03 GMT -8
My group played a session of it last month. We ran the Breakout Event (their name for a scenario or adventure module) that's included in the book. I really like the system overall, though I did have a few issues with it. I've never played any other Cortex+ games yet, so I can't say how similar MHRP is to other Margaret Weiss games.
Just like retrosuperhero, I like the narrative style and the fact that you don't need minis or a gridded map to play. We did use HeroClick minis during the game to roughly show where everyone was in relationship to everyone else, but that's totally optional.
I also really like the dice pool mechanics, both for the players and for The Watcher (the GM). It's slightly tricky to get at first since it's different from other games, but once you do it's pretty quick. There was some confusion about how the Watcher-controlled characters activate their abilities, since they don't have Power Points to spend though.
One thing I don't like about the game is the amount of what I'll call metagaming it can create. When you're building your dice pool for task resolution, there's a lot of potential negotiation between the player and the GM about what dice you can add to your pool and where on your data file (character sheet) they're coming from. The skills and powers are broadly worded, which on the one hand is great because it allows you to come up with all kinds of creative ways to use them. I played as the Invisible Woman and simply having Force Blast d10 with a note saying I get a bonus when creating force constructs, allowed me to (attempt to) do all kinds of cool stuff (I usually failed the roll though).
But the flip side of that is it's sometimes not entirely clear if and when certain dice should be added to your pool. Players want their characters to do well (because failing sucks) and so have an incentive to add as many dice to their roll as possible. Even when it those skills and abilities don't really make sense for the action their character is attempting. Creative players can come up with ways to make just about any skill or ability be useful in almost any situation. Which, at times, almost felt like cheating to me. It's the same issue I have with FATE; I feel like the player is rationalizing the use of these abilities to gain a mechanical advantage rather than the fiction of the story dictating what should be relevant.
On the opposite end of the spectrum to using too many dice, players can also really hamstring themselves by not using enough. The guy who was playing as the Human Torch was rolling only like two or three dice for his actions (which is a pretty small pool) because he felt he couldn't make any of his other skills or abilities fit. As a result he was constantly failing rolls, which made him felt completely ineffectual and frustrated him. As it would.
Power Points (sort of the MHRP version of bennies) also felt kind of metagamey to me. One of the easiest ways to get them is by using your Distinctions in a negative way. Distinctions are sort of like Aspects in FATE or Edges and Hinderances rolled into one quality. If you use it in a positive way you add a d8 to your pool; use it in a negative way and you add a d4 to your pool but get a Power Point. During the game there were times when I, the player, wanted a Power Point because I had none and so did things with my character to earn them. But again, I felt like I was cheating, because the action was driven by player choice rather than the character's personality.
Hmm... it kind of sounds like I'm dumping on the system when I'm really not. There are many things I like about it. I just think that a few things need to be made clearer in the rule book.
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Post by mook on Apr 18, 2012 18:46:52 GMT -8
I played in a demo of this game at the last OrcCon, and it was totally fun. I'm certainly not leaving GURPS for a new system, but as far as having a fun con game and appreciating the system on its own merits -- yeah, it was a blast! 'Course, the GM was terriffic, and I got to play Wolverine, so it would have been tough to have an Epic Fail game.
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Post by ayslyn on Apr 18, 2012 19:34:03 GMT -8
During the game there were times when I, the player, wanted a Power Point because I had none and so did things with my character to earn them. But again, I felt like I was cheating, because the action was driven by player choice rather than the character's personality. Just a small thought. Sometimes we need to stop thinking what the right thing for our character to do would be, and start thinking about what will make for a good story. Think about how dull Friday the 13th would be if everyone did the smart thing, and gathered in one cabin, barricaded themselves in, made sure there was plenty of light, and waited until morning to escape in a large group. Sol Stein once came to the bookstore I worked at to promote his book. He gave some GREAT advice. Paraphrased, it was that for the good of your story, sometimes your protagonist needs to be a moron.
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Post by retrosuperhero on Apr 19, 2012 3:42:16 GMT -8
I think the comments about metagamming are appropriate, and we encountered some of the same issues that Hyv did. Some of my players were hesitant to add distinctions or powers because they felt they didn't apply - which I think is a tribute to the player's honesty, but their effectiveness was hampered.
The ability to use a distinction in a negative way is pretty cool, and it takes a little practice for the players to realize that they can do that - most of them just want to assemble the biggest pool available.
Like the previous comment - I think this game in particular has mechanics that serve to tell a communal story, not adjudicate individual actions realistically.
I'm going to run through the Breakout Act this weekend again with some new players. One of the toughest things is introducing this system to new players. While it appears simple, Assets, Resources, Complications and Stress can be hard to explain.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
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Post by HyveMynd on Apr 19, 2012 5:52:47 GMT -8
Just a small thought. Sometimes we need to stop thinking what the right thing for our character to do would be, and start thinking about what will make for a good story. Indeed, and I've been thinking about that very idea since our session of MHRP. The game definitely leans more towards the narrative end of the scale, as has previously been mentioned. I think a large part of that comes both from how you earn Power Points and the Milestones. As said, Power Points are sort of like MHRP's bennies. You use them to add extra dice your your pool, keep more dice for your total, and activate certain abilities or special effects. You earn Power Points by using a Distinction in such a way that it screws you over, activate one of your limits (killing one of your Powers for a time), or by having the Watcher "buy" any 1's you roll (which you don't get to add to your total). Some of the Distinctions are personality aspects while others aren't. So just as ayslyn said sometimes you have to think of what would make for an awesome story rather than what the character would do. It does take some getting use to because normally we don't choose to put our characters into dangerous situations; we try to get them out. MHRP kind of requires you to think outside the box a bit. It's sort of the same with Milestones. Milestones are both a way for characters to gain XP (to advance their characters) and to provide story hooks and connect the characters to the plot. Every character has two Milestone sets, each consisting of three levels; one at 1XP, one at 3 XP, and one at 10XP. But when you start an Event, every player has the option of swapping one of the usual Milestones on their data file with one of the special Milestones for that Event. Sure they help you connect with what's going on in the story, but they also pretty much give away any "secret" there might have been in the Event. So yes, the game really does have mechanics that work to tell a communal story. I wish I had known that before we played our game of it. There are lots of cool things you can do with the system once you realize what it's meant to do. Those Assets, Resources, and Complications are hard to wrap your head around.
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Post by jazzisblues on Apr 19, 2012 11:00:32 GMT -8
During the game there were times when I, the player, wanted a Power Point because I had none and so did things with my character to earn them. But again, I felt like I was cheating, because the action was driven by player choice rather than the character's personality. Just a small thought. Sometimes we need to stop thinking what the right thing for our character to do would be, and start thinking about what will make for a good story. Think about how dull Friday the 13th would be if everyone did the smart thing, and gathered in one cabin, barricaded themselves in, made sure there was plenty of light, and waited until morning to escape in a large group. The right thing for the character to do (or rather what the CHARACTER would do) is not necessarily the BEST thing from a game standpoint. That's what I strive for, is to do what the character WOULD do regardless of whether it's a good idea or not. Cheers, JiB Sol Stein once came to the bookstore I worked at to promote his book. He gave some GREAT advice. Paraphrased, it was that for the good of your story, sometimes your protagonist needs to be a moron.
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Post by fray on Apr 19, 2012 15:22:08 GMT -8
I just got my copy last week. It's at the top of my to read stack.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2012 16:14:24 GMT -8
I've gotten to read Marvel, and I really like for a narrative superhero system.
It is cortex plus, but it has quite a few novel mechanics that I really like.
First, the doom pool. Pretty much anytime you roll a 1, you add a die to the GM's doom pool. it's from this doom pool that he uses to power his antagonists throughout the story. In addition to rolling a 1, quite a few powers have the ability to "add 1 die to the doom pool to do X".
Affiliations: Each hero has a d6, d8, and d10 to distribute between his affiliation scores of Solo, Buddy, or Team. As their name suggests, this represents how well these characters "play with others". This is a really neat way to represent "teamwork" in the genre, which is a cornerstone of the superheroes genre.
Narrative Initiative: This I think is Rob Donahue's crowning acheivement in this game. It's so simple as to be brilliant. The players and GM determine who "should go first", and then when that Character has finished, he determines who goes next until everyone has gone!
So, no more "I Delay!" junk when Colossus and Wolverine want to do their Speedball throw. Colossus player goes first, rolls to throw Wolverine, and then says that Wolverine goes next.
Mechanical Plot Points: Cortex has always been fuzzy on how to get plot points. now, there are several mechanically defined ways to gain them. First is to choose to have one of your three Personality traits (Read: Aspects) only add a 1d4 to the roll instead of 1d8. Since a roll of a 1 generates a die for the Doom Pool, this greatly increases the odds of that happening. Secondly, most powers allow you to disable them temporarily in exchange for a plot point. Iron Man's armor is running low on power, or Cap's shield is knocked off a bridge. etc.
No Character Generation Points!: Yes, that's right.... there are no points. You determine your affiliations, you pick your traits, you select your powers, and you choose your skills based on your character concept....bang, done. Balance is handled by GM input, as well as time in the story spotlight, not by some mythical crunchy points spread.
All and all, I think Marvel is MWP's 2nd best product to date, behind Smallville and its unique relationship-based approached to mechanics. Rob Donahue has done a brilliant job once again, and has truly made a lasting impression to the positive upon the cortex products, which were mediocre at best before his arrival (Serenity, BSG, Supernatural).
Joe
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Post by evading on May 20, 2012 17:21:31 GMT -8
I'm planning on buying it once it actually makes its way over to the UK, I'm a big fan of Cortex in general and like what they've been doing with the adapting the games to the genre. >:(
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