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Post by CreativeCowboy on May 7, 2012 10:41:01 GMT -8
When a monster successfully (according to the dice) takes control of another character’s actions through a spell or a magical effect, like suggestion or charm or command or confusion or something, how do you handle it?
I have players make secret rolls for their characters before the game and I will use those rolls to hide information that is undetected e.g. detecting a secret portal, finding a trap, spotting a lie, or making a poison save, etc. So when a monster makes a suggestion to a PC and the player fails his or her PC’s Will Save for example, rather than take over the player character’s actions or force the player to do what I say, I describe the situation to strongly influence the player’s actions. If the suggestion is to attack the party member closest to the PC, then I describe an enemy expecting the player to attack on his or her own – without meta-gaming and without loss of control.
It is possible that the player’s influence on his or her character is greater than the monster’s. Just as it is possible that the enemy closest to the PC will, in fact, attack the PC and the player/PC will have declared they will not respond to that attack.
Of course this is (almost?) impossible to R-P to this detail using a Battle Mat.
When a PC successfully makes a suggestion to a GM’s monster, I just have the monster do what gets communicated, sometimes to the spirit and sometimes to the letter of what it is instructed. But that “inequity” is just a way of balancing out the game for the PCs who will be controlled by mind control spells many more times than any GM monster.
How do you handle these situations where player agency is an issue? Do you ask for the player’s PC sheet and operate the PC for the number of rounds the mind control is in effect? Or do you have another way of role-playing out these situations?
I would love to have your input.
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Post by jazzisblues on May 7, 2012 11:20:14 GMT -8
I take a very strong view of this topic. I will not except in VERY extreme circumstances take control of a pc away from the player. If something like what you describe happens in game and it does often I give the player cues ... As an example ... Oh quit complaining you knew it was coming ...
Me: [bad guy mystical psionic arsehole is going to try to use his Suggestion power and rolls well on his attempt so to the player of the character being suggested] Give me a spirit roll please.
Player: I got a 2
Me: [noting that the spirit roll was a failure] You REALLY want to take the book to your friend out by the car.
Player: Oh I do? Well then I'm going to take him the book.
Chaos ensues as another player tries to restrain her
This assumes a certain amount of trust between players and gm, namely that I'm not going to do so randomly or without cause, and that they will act on what I tell them and not cockblock. If a player does start to cockblock then bad things will happen to them such as it will be painful to resist the suggestion or any number of other possibilities that influence the player to act on the situation but don't take control of the game from them.
Just my 2 krupplenicks on the subject, your mileage may of course vary.
JiB
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joegun
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 249
Preferred Game Systems: Savage Worlds
Currently Playing: Just GM'ing right now.
Currently Running: Rippers Resurrected, and Savage RIFTS!
Favorite Species of Monkey: Baboon
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Post by joegun on May 7, 2012 23:47:22 GMT -8
I usually Follow suit with JiB's method. I trust my players to go along with what the dice tell them. If they don't well, whatever we are there for fun anyway. But I have yet to have that happen. I will nudge them in the direction if they resist, but to me, that is just role playing out the effect of the spell/potion/persuasion roll. Although going a bit more Shady, I did have a player who got hit by a confusion spell. THe idea was it made you attack the nearest people around you. I handled it by saying that the entire deck of the ship was wrapped in an eerie green fog, and you can hear scraping on the deck. Soon you see a monster step out from the fog, wicked fangs dripping with what can only be acid. The best lunges at you, what do you do? Of course he attacks, and when he hits, I have him roll his damage and apply it to the PC next to him. There was the reveal, and after that they were so stunned they continued to go with it. So my long winded (see JiB) response is to say, I agree with JiB
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Post by jazzisblues on May 8, 2012 6:46:26 GMT -8
I usually Follow suit with JiB's method. I trust my players to go along with what the dice tell them. If they don't well, whatever we are there for fun anyway. But I have yet to have that happen. I will nudge them in the direction if they resist, but to me, that is just role playing out the effect of the spell/potion/persuasion roll. Although going a bit more Shady, I did have a player who got hit by a confusion spell. THe idea was it made you attack the nearest people around you. I handled it by saying that the entire deck of the ship was wrapped in an eerie green fog, and you can hear scraping on the deck. Soon you see a monster step out from the fog, wicked fangs dripping with what can only be acid. The best lunges at you, what do you do? Of course he attacks, and when he hits, I have him roll his damage and apply it to the PC next to him. There was the reveal, and after that they were so stunned they continued to go with it. So my long winded (see JiB) response is to say, I agree with JiB Exactly the way I have approached the same situation. Neat imagery too. I like it. JiB
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on May 8, 2012 22:19:05 GMT -8
There was a similar case of this in a Vampire game I played in, though it didn't involve combat at all. We had an NPC who was a murder suspect tied up in a chair and two PCs were questioning her. My PC was romantically involved with this NPC, was convinced of her innocence, and was actually trying to figure out a way of getting her out of there.
Anyway, the NPC in question had crazy good suggestion and "super charisma" powers, and the two PCs questioning her got close enough for her to use them. The Storyteller rolled the dice, asked for their resistance rolls, and both of them failed. Big time. The power said that they would do whatever she wanted them to for a while, which of course was to help me untie her and let her go. They had also rolled so badly that they wouldn't think they had acted strangely, and would not realize they'd been manipulated at all once the power wore off. The Storyteller didn't take their sheets from them or roll any dice for things, but just kind of narrated how letting her go seemed like a really good idea, and that they were absolutely convinced that she had told them everything she knew and was innocent.
One player went along with it. He said "Well, my guy failed his roll. So he doesn't think this is weird, and he won't question her again unless he gets some new information that makes him think otherwise." The other guy was a bit of a bad sport though. He kept saying that his PC didn't believe she was innocent and that he wouldn't let it rest. When the power wore off, he immediately wanted to go back and haul the NPC in again. I and the Storyteller both argued him out of it eventually, but he was obviously not really happy about the situation.
From my perspective though, he had more than a fair warning. As both a player and a character, he knew this type of power existed in the world. He knew the NPC was my "mom" and that we both had a similar "super charisma" power set. He'd even seen my PC use this exact same power on other NPCs several times before and knew exactly what it could do.
So, basically there has to be a level of maturity and trust between the players and the GM for "control" type effects to not become a problem. Both parties have to abide by the rules and not complain when things don't go their way. On the flip side though, neither party should take advantage of the situation or overuse the power.
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Post by jazzisblues on May 9, 2012 8:06:37 GMT -8
HyveMind,
That's an unfortunate circumstance that is going to happen. You're going to get people who for whatever reason don't want to go along with it.
It might be that they want to "win" or it might be that they just don't understand or want to "go against" what they think their character would do.
All I can suggest is to keep doing it that way and they'll come around (or not)
JiB
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