carrotandstick
Apprentice Douchebag
Not a n00b. Not a bittervet. Just me.
Posts: 86
Preferred Game Systems: Fate
Favorite Species of Monkey: Librarian
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Post by carrotandstick on Sept 11, 2017 2:56:53 GMT -8
So I was reading this by the one and only Ryan Macklin, and there was one section in particular that caught my attention: "Understand that when Leonard Balsera and I were sitting down to start the rewrite of Fate Core, we took this idea as a feature. We accepted that survival horror (where characters aren’t especially empowered), gritty combat (better executed by systems that give a damn about equipment), intense mysteries (where all the information creation is in the GM’s hands) are not strong suits in Fate. They can be done in Fate, so long as you also understand that Fate’s own sensibilities will twist them." [emphasis mine] Now, as you may have noted I love me some Fate. But there are times and settings where I really want me some gear porn. So to my fellow Fate lovers; recommend me a system that a Fate aficionado like me will enjoy, but can do more granularity with gear, powers etc.? I know about Strands of Fate 2e (do want) and Genesys (DO WANT) and I've been looking at WEG d6 and Hero (GURPS is a fine piece of writing but too...lethal...for my taste).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 16:33:59 GMT -8
Just from memory, having not played in FOREVER, Hero reminded me of GURPS in that everything kind of was decoration on top of the ability, like that a blaster and a bow were pretty much identical in that they were RKA/ranged killing attacks. Sometimes I get my Champions/Hero mixed up but I'm sure they were generally the same.
That's a tough question because if you want their gear to mean something, it's hard, I think, to find that. It's been my general experience that the games where gear matters or the game gives a damn about equipment, you're going to run into the problem that combat seems to take on it's own. It's not system-humble, as Ken Hite and Robin Laws call it, games with gear making the difference almost shifts into a subgame. YMMV of course. I love gear making a difference, but sometimes, once you start down that path, then cover matters, then flanking matters, stealth, ambush, movement, range... alot of the clunky things people dislike about 5e.
Again, ymmv
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Post by mook on Sept 11, 2017 17:15:58 GMT -8
I popped in to give a shout-out to Strands of Fate, but as it's already on your radar I'll instead just mention that there are many, many ways to make GURPS less lethal if that's your only roadblock.
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carrotandstick
Apprentice Douchebag
Not a n00b. Not a bittervet. Just me.
Posts: 86
Preferred Game Systems: Fate
Favorite Species of Monkey: Librarian
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Post by carrotandstick on Sept 12, 2017 3:08:45 GMT -8
It's not system-humble, as Ken Hite and Robin Laws call it... Can you elaborate or link on this, please? I popped in to give a shout-out to Strands of Fate, but as it's already on your radar I'll instead just mention that there are many, many ways to make GURPS less lethal if that's your only roadblock. OOH! MOOK! I wanted to speak to you! I stumbled on your old MUDGE document and the 'damage die' as you called it really caught my attention and I want to steal it (and rename it) for a Fate hack I ended up spontaneously making in my head as a result of this aforementioned search. I have...plans...for it. That okay? =) Secondly, do tell about making GURPS less lethal? I was, specifically, looking for a system to run Starfinder because I am very, very done with d20 and wanted something that could do the equipment variety (at least in part) and something close to the magic, while getting away from the, er, quirks of the d20 system.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 8:48:25 GMT -8
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carrotandstick
Apprentice Douchebag
Not a n00b. Not a bittervet. Just me.
Posts: 86
Preferred Game Systems: Fate
Favorite Species of Monkey: Librarian
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Post by carrotandstick on Sept 12, 2017 12:11:46 GMT -8
404 error on that link...
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Post by akavidar on Sept 12, 2017 14:25:33 GMT -8
Just want to say, love Ed!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 16:36:35 GMT -8
404 error on that link... www.kenandrobintalkaboutstuff.com/index.php/tag/system-humilityTry that. I think I accidentally ran-on a sentence into the link. Or look for it. Like I said, it's a great resource all in all for all kinds of things, and each segment is about 15 minutes. I've learned about the Librarian of Alexandria, European Union garlic smuggling rings (for reals), Robert Fortune (a six-foot tall Scotsman who smuggled tea out of China in a portable greenhouse and broke the Chinese monopoly on tea, planting it in Darjeeling). So... a lot of interesting things there
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Post by mook on Sept 12, 2017 21:14:58 GMT -8
OOH! MOOK! I wanted to speak to you! I stumbled on your old MUDGE document and the 'damage die' as you called it really caught my attention and I want to steal it (and rename it) for a Fate hack I ended up spontaneously making in my head as a result of this aforementioned search. I have...plans...for it. That okay? =) Hiya, carrotandstick. :wave: A shout-out would be nice, but even that's up to you. Fudge was open source before open source was cool lol. Use away, I look forward to seeing what you cook up. (And 'grats on even finding Mudge, the cobwebs must have been thick!) Secondly, do tell about making GURPS less lethal? I'll probably whip this all together into a post one day, but a lot of advice is already in print. Pp. 496-497 of the GURPS Basic Set, under the heading of "Keeping the Characters Alive," offers a number of ways to make it less likely your PCs will get dead, such as don't make NPC enemies super-powerful killing machines with no human sense of self-preservation, use rules that enable PCs to keep themselves alive (like Extra Effort in Combat, p. 357, Influencing Success Rolls, p. 347, etc.), etc. Then, pp. 40-41 of "How to Be a GURPS GM" lists a few optional rules to increase lethality (Accumulated and Last Wounds, Bleeding, Dying Actions, Mortal Wounds, etc.), so be sure to not use those! One of the simplest ways to affect lethality is, of course, gear. PCs with better gear and weapons than their enemies will usually mop the floor with 'em. Probably the biggest change in my personal games the past few years has been to make sure that nearly every Heroic PC (that is, not a gritty realistic homicide detective, but a larger than life hero who's expected to survive all manner of harm and mayhem) has the Luck advantage, and allowing them to use that luck to turn any single attack's damage into a 1-point flesh wound (p. 417) once an hour. This is excellent insurance against getting one-shotted by a powerful enemy... but once it's gone you have to wait another 60 minutes to get it back, so you're much more vulnerable during that window. Speaking of enemies, if they're just 'hordes of nameless mooks' (*cough*), remember there's no reason they need to be making HT rolls to stay conscious at 0, or choosing any maneuver other than All-Out Attack (depriving them of defenses). If it's appropriate to the setting for the hero to take on a half-dozen low-level thugs with ease, they should be down and out of the fight at 0 HP (though not necessarily dead). Finally, one of my favorite GURPS PDFs is "Power-Ups 5: Impulse Buys." It basically outlines a variety of systems for allowing PCs to use meta-points (aka, Fate Points, Destiny Points, whatever) to affect all kinds of things in the game, very handy for giving heroes even more of an edge in staying alive. (Note this isn't a new system, exactly... all the parts of it have been in GURPS since the 4th Edition Basic Set. It just expands the scope quite a bit and gives examples.)
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carrotandstick
Apprentice Douchebag
Not a n00b. Not a bittervet. Just me.
Posts: 86
Preferred Game Systems: Fate
Favorite Species of Monkey: Librarian
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Post by carrotandstick on Sept 12, 2017 23:41:23 GMT -8
Just want to say, love Ed! Howdy, space cowboy! That's better, cheers. A shout-out would be nice, but even that's up to you. Fudge was open source before open source was cool lol. Use away, I look forward to seeing what you cook up. (And 'grats on even finding Mudge, the cobwebs must have been thick!) Of course on the shout out, and you wouldn't believe how thick. Seizure inducing colour schemes, HTML frames for page navigation, the works. It was like something out of the MySpace era. I'll probably whip this all together into a post one day, but a lot of advice is already in print. *snip* From a glance, sounds like the entire Power-Ups line might be what I'm looking for. Does the Supers book have anything in it about comic book-style damage? You know, where getting thrown through a wall might just tear your uniform and leave you a bit scraped and bruised, even if you're just* Captain America? That might be an inspiration... I've also considered simply cranking down the damage that weapons do.
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Post by mook on Sept 13, 2017 17:10:34 GMT -8
It was like something out of the MySpace era. You... are not wrong. Does the Supers book have anything in it about comic book-style damage? You know, where getting thrown through a wall might just tear your uniform and leave you a bit scraped and bruised, even if you're just* Captain America? That might be an inspiration... I've also considered simply cranking down the damage that weapons do. I've not read "Supers" for like a decade, but it does spend at least a few pages talking about that. See the Table of Contents in the free preview PDF, especially Chapter 7, "Clashes of Titans."
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carrotandstick
Apprentice Douchebag
Not a n00b. Not a bittervet. Just me.
Posts: 86
Preferred Game Systems: Fate
Favorite Species of Monkey: Librarian
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Post by carrotandstick on Sept 13, 2017 19:29:01 GMT -8
So I've been doing some more Googling, and aside from realising that there are a lot more optional knobs than I realised in GURPS (yay!) I've been finding stuff like this pseudoboo.blogspot.com.au/2016/09/review-pyramid-344-alternate-gurps-ii.html?m=1Appendix Z - Survivable Guns This two page... Appendix, by David L. Pulver offers a solution for games where guns would be cool, but often prove to be too dangerous. The method used actually manages to make the guns less lethal, but still have awesome oomph, good for more cinematic games where the threat of dying shouldn't keep heroes from doing cool stuff. To help clarify the translation, the article includes adjusted stats for several (all?) of the guns in the Basic Set, leaving others as an exercise for the reader. I've never used it myself, but it is a very popular option, and the math isn't difficult at all, so I can see it being easily applied in the case that I were interested.and this: forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?46121-GURPS-Health-vs-Hit-points-longwhich mentions something in Supers called Stun damage. Mostly I've been mulling over exactly what I'm looking for system wise in terms of feel and effect and a less mechanical, more philosophical level. When I have an answer I'll let you know. ;-) Edit: I think I know. My old roleplay buddies used to refer to hit points as a character's Hero Aura; they weren't a representation of health per se, but how much intense combat a character could endure before they were ACTUALLY hurt. This is different from what most GURPSistas suggest as an answer, which is to increase defenses and don't be hit. This leaves character survivability very much up to the whims of RNGesus, which I don't like. A 'hero aura buffer' lets players control how committed they are in a more measurable and less random manner. On that note, is the TV Action Violence optional rule basically a rule for turning your FP into an extra health buffer?
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carrotandstick
Apprentice Douchebag
Not a n00b. Not a bittervet. Just me.
Posts: 86
Preferred Game Systems: Fate
Favorite Species of Monkey: Librarian
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Post by carrotandstick on Sept 14, 2017 2:14:19 GMT -8
Also, Wildcards versus Talents. I mean...why. Why have two different mechanics to do basically the same thing. I mean AAAARGH.
Also, I only just realised blowthrough is a thing? Which mitigates instadeath somewhat I guess...
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Post by joecrak on Sept 17, 2017 3:56:13 GMT -8
BULLDOGS! Fate is pretty hear heavy in some regards.
Other than that sounds like you want something like Gurps, Savage Worlds, or Hero.
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carrotandstick
Apprentice Douchebag
Not a n00b. Not a bittervet. Just me.
Posts: 86
Preferred Game Systems: Fate
Favorite Species of Monkey: Librarian
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Post by carrotandstick on Sept 17, 2017 4:23:08 GMT -8
BULLDOGS! Fate is pretty hear heavy in some regards. Other than that sounds like you want something like Gurps, Savage Worlds, or Hero. GURPS with TV Action Violence and Bang! skills only sounds like it might do the job...but so does taking WEG d6 and using the GURPS Advantage/Disadvantages to flesh it out (something others have apparently done with some success). Savage Worlds...I don't get the popularity. The core dice mechanic absolutely sucks (just look at a probability graph of d4 through d12 skill next to almost any other RPG and you'll see what I mean). Hero is...similar to GURPS in design, less lethal, but some of its design choices feel extraordinarily dated in a bad way, and they make me itch. So while I applaud them, it's not for me. I have the Bulldogs! PDF somewhere. I'll have to take a looksee. In the meantime Mook has kindly given a skim-read thumbs up to my Fate hack in progress, so maybe I'll use that (maybe some Bulldogs! will end up mixed in, who knows)! If you have any advice on making GURPS less lethal (I know Supers 3e had a Stun damage mechanic, and I got the aformentioned Pyramid issue as well) I'd be greatly appreciative.
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