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Post by Distracted on Sept 12, 2017 12:46:41 GMT -8
Has anyone ever peopled their Med. Fantasy with actual avatars for the gods living in the world? For example, Athena actually lives in Athens, Set occupies a temple in Memphis or Poseidon lives in a Castle/City under the waves. How did it play out? Did it last or go unrealized? How did you treat the Avatars? were they physically larger than humanoids? concerned with earthly things? would be conquerors? did they fight over domains or status? Anyone who has tried or considered these please chime in...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 14:53:47 GMT -8
There is a good article in an old Dragon magazine, depending on power level you want, about (or called) Small Gods. It deals with, for example, a town where everyone venerates this ancient apple tree and feel it blesses them. The years they treat it well, it's bountiful. I think even to the extent that you can pray or offer to it for healing, etc. It really was an interesting look at local, small gods possibly even below the demigod level in power.
As far as avatars go, I think Greek pantheon would be the easiest. They're humans. Unbearably powerful and petty humans, amping every emotion to 10 and beyond. There are gaming products that deal with avatars, etc - the old Forgotten Realms stuff and comics when they were moving to 2e for example. I also recommend Monte Cook's Requiem for a God, which deals with the issues of gods losing power or dying, what happens to the faith, etc. And also their demiurges, the last spark of divinity they have
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Post by kurtpotts on Sept 13, 2017 10:28:43 GMT -8
I like using the iron druid way of dealing with deities. Enough worship and a god shows up. Different people worship differently so you end up with multiple gods that do the same thing. I have them show up from time to time, but if you wanted to go to them you'd have to travel to their plane. I like the idea of having them just show up at a temple and say they live there now. Would be interesting to see how the inhabitants of that town/city would handle it. If word spread would you get a bunch of pilgrims. Would the enemies of the deity send their followers to attack.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 15:12:53 GMT -8
I like using the iron druid way of dealing with deities. Enough worship and a god shows up. Different people worship differently so you end up with multiple gods that do the same thing. I have them show up from time to time, but if you wanted to go to them you'd have to travel to their plane. I like the idea of having them just show up at a temple and say they live there now. Would be interesting to see how the inhabitants of that town/city would handle it. If word spread would you get a bunch of pilgrims. Would the enemies of the deity send their followers to attack. I think on this topic, American Gods might be a great look-at for dealing with avatars and their misadventures, as well as the nature of belief and how gods are essentially powered by their followers. Show was amazing. Mister Wednesday is my spirit animal.
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Post by kurtpotts on Sept 14, 2017 8:05:40 GMT -8
American Gods is great. I haven't seen the show yet, but I really enjoyed the book.
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raemus
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Post by raemus on Sept 18, 2017 7:14:39 GMT -8
I play in the Exalted setting most often these days which is a pantheistic world where little gods are very common (and hundreds of thousands of them exist) but I've game mastered nigh for n every iteration of diefic involvement in a world.
I my games where there are "greater gods" like those of your average D&D style pantheons, I've come to the conclusion that it is better to have the gods removed from the world directly (often metaphysically justified) than have them literally able to walk around as it often break credulity of the setting otherwise. Instead it is better to have Saints, Angels or other intermediaries to their intervention work on the ground.
If u do go the avatar route, I suggest remembering that these being would be endlessly petitioned for their favor and forced into leadership roles (replacing kings and pipes alike) and thus should either be secluded or protected from such onslaughts. If you don't the setting breaks unless u have some very good reasons why. Not Undoable but requires much more effort
That's my 2 cents
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Post by chronovore on Sept 18, 2017 15:28:17 GMT -8
I have only ever used angels and demons, the servitors of the bigger gods. The underlings could interfere in the affairs of humans and other sentence, but the gods they served would not do so directly.
I like the example of the apple tree being a small god, grant and small favors, and providing blessings.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 6:35:21 GMT -8
There's an old story in L5R, where the Kami (basically gods and goddesses who fell to earth) had a tournament to decide who should be the emperor of this mortal land. After all was decided, the brother who fell far away from them and became corrupted appeared and claimed that he was excluded, and challenged for the right to lead. Togashi accepted the challenge, and named the people of the mortal world as their weapons for the duel...
I think gods and goddesses are going to be the same way, and American Gods addresses it, the power they draw from mortals. I agree that if there are intermediaries and avatars, the avatars will constantly be swamped with follower-ons or the needy. I think of the situation being like ancient Egypt where they believed the pharoah were divine.
The old Jeff Grubb Forgotten Realms comic dealt with the switch over where they had avatars land in the FR. One god took over his priest, one of the main characters, and it dealt with how even though the avatar was severely depowered, he was way more powerful than the other characters, and he ran roughshod over them, and when he went back to his realm, his (former) priest was left with all the consequences and memories of what he had done.
#rambley
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Post by Probie Tim on Sept 21, 2017 5:43:41 GMT -8
Has anyone ever peopled their Med. Fantasy with actual avatars for the gods living in the world? The closest I've ever come to anything like that was a GURPS Russia/Fantasy/Fantasy II: The Mad Lands crossover I once ran. Basically an entire medieval Russian village was picked up by the Banestorm and dropped in Yrth shortly after the Banestorm picked up the "gods" from the Mad Lands and plopped them down in Yrth as well. It was a fun chunk o' chaos of a game, but I was far too heavy handed with the Mad Lands "gods" running around. Aside of that, no, I tend to keep my gods well out of the mortal realm, and also quite incomprehensible and un-understandable to mortals. 'Cuz gods that seem insane and chaotic - even when they're "good" gods - are effing rad.
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Post by ayslyn on Sept 21, 2017 12:56:51 GMT -8
I have both the gods walking around as well as avatars/champions in one of my worlds. Even deities need a PA. ^.^
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 16:49:09 GMT -8
I have both the gods walking around as well as avatars/champions in one of my worlds. Even deities need a PA. ^.^ Given that generally speaking, fantasy deities lack absolute power, having a lot of avatars really could be a risky endeavor. Generally the way I've seen - again, going back to the FR Godswar where all of the gods were booted from their planes and forced to the Prime - you have a lot of power locally but no longer the ability to direct it all over the place. For instance, the avatar of Zeus can't lightning strike NYC, but he can sure make it pretty miserable around Greece. If the god is connected mentally to his avatars and they're essentially nodes and agents of his power, he really needs to be careful that a group of enemy gods with their minions and their own avatars don't essentially create a widespread metaphysical DDoS attack. Especially if he's been being pretty open and brazen with his powers. Again, I can't recommend Monte Cook's Requiem For A God enough. Even gets down to the nitty gritty of harvesting magical energy from a god's body, whether it died of strife or died planes away slowly starving from lack of followers. YMMV
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Post by Distracted on Sept 22, 2017 23:49:25 GMT -8
I have both the gods walking around as well as avatars/champions in one of my worlds. Even deities need a PA. ^.^ Ayslyn how does any interaction happen? Does it mostly happen through intermediaries? How well does it go?
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Post by ayslyn on Sept 23, 2017 9:34:05 GMT -8
I have both the gods walking around as well as avatars/champions in one of my worlds. Even deities need a PA. ^.^ Ayslyn how does any interaction happen? Does it mostly happen through intermediaries? How well does it go? I would love to say how well it works, but sadly -- for other reasons -- I've screwed up the campaign beyond salvaging a couple of times, and never gotten to the point where PCs really interact with one. Conceptually speaking, there are three gods, two of which are active, and one who has been forgotten. The two are akin to the Greek or Norse, in that they have a Celestial home, but can sometimes be found wandering the world as well. Each of them empowers a champion who theoretically enacts their will on the world, but without any sort of compulsion to do so. The empowerment is irreversible as well (which becomes a plot point, as one of the champions goes off the rails a bit)
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