drayle88
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 57
Preferred Game Systems: AlcheMonster D20
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Post by drayle88 on Oct 30, 2017 8:51:52 GMT -8
Greetings and hello my beautiful people! In Happy Jacks S20E11 my email got read, concerning my players all making deals with a wish granting catfish fiend. While I loved the ideas and feedback of the crew, I'm going to be digging for newer, deeper and darker ways to mess with my players in the long term. Shoutout to rosaleendhu for perfectly grasping the spirit of what I was trying to accomplish. Here's hoping I'll be able to get some solid ideas. The setup is as follows. The Fiend Catfish (Tahm) can eat anything. Food, money, people, dreams, desires, anything. He loves feeding on the despair of those he has empowered, but more than just despair. The loss of a loved one, the panic of abandonment, he feeds on emotions built up to a fever pitch. The party has all asked, and received, something from him. The Rogue asked for a map, the gnome asked for healing potions, and the wizard asked for courage. The wizard was given a sentient sword that will, as time goes on, make him stronger, but also will pull him into trouble in order to build up his spine. The current ideas that I am milking are simple, but I need to make them last over a campaign. The Rogue loves money (of course) but one thought I had was once she finds a big pile of treasure, only her cut takes a hit. Or maybe stealing something away from her that she has worked hard to get. The gnome ultimately wants respect from his peers (gnome is a cop), and has a chip on his shoulder. One thought I had is once the gnome works his way up the latter and is given an important task, thats when Tahm shows up to screw it all up. The wizard, ultimately, is a coward. But he fears his father, and wants to stand up to him. I'm working on how to build that up as well. Keep in mind I dont want to fuck over my players. I want to make them make the hard choices. I want the effects of their first session to be felt through the entire game. P.S. if I can get some good ideas, i actually want to email HappyJacks again, but leave a recording in the voice of Tahm. Just for funzies. (UPDATE:10/31/17 - We had our halloween session, a zombie horde fighting them trying to get into a temple. I decided to treat the potions as Full Restores, gain back all HP + a few temp hit points. During battle the Wizard fell, and gnome fed one of the potions to the Wizard to bring him back. What could I do with this longer term? I don't want to have the gnome NOT use the potions more, but I do one an ongoing effect for anyone who uses them.)
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drayle88
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 57
Preferred Game Systems: AlcheMonster D20
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Post by drayle88 on Oct 30, 2017 9:01:35 GMT -8
Also would like to get Kainguru in on this to get some of his ideas as well.
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Post by Kainguru on Oct 31, 2017 2:34:38 GMT -8
For the Gnome you could ‘Pull a Gotham’ ie: the, rather excellent, TV series ... SPOILERS ALERT In the most recent story arc the Penguin has co-opted the Mayors office by offering to reduce crime rates with a ‘crime permit’ scheme. Such that crime still happens, but at a regulated level, controlled by Penguin. Obviously our protagonist, Jim Gordon, cannot accept this and that has put him at odds with his police colleagues, who are only all too happy to ‘let permit holders carry on unimpeded’ - less risk, besides they get an extra bonus from Penguin and they’re just following the mayors orders. Your fish fiend could be pulling strings like Penguin to put the Gnome in a conundrum. Follow the letter of law or follow the spirit of the law - either way it’s a tough choice. Aaron
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Post by Kainguru on Oct 31, 2017 5:33:57 GMT -8
What’s the family background with the Wizard? Ie: social standing, position in the community, fathers occupation? The Rogue could fall afoul of the above mentioned permit scheme - not able to get permits for big scores and then tempt her with an opportunity that’s just too tempting to pass up. The opportunity would then arise for the Gnome to gain prestige with his estranged colleagues by apprehending the Rogue and confiscating her hard won prizes. Two for the price of one - especially if you can make the macguffin something the Gnome really doesn’t want to hand back to its original owners (because it would upset the balance of power in the local community or lead to common folk being exploited even more). Better yet, make the wizards family a real bunch of bastards who, if left unchecked, would do a ‘Saruman to the Shire’ in pursuit of personal profit and gain and have them have the macguffin that empowers their schemes and tempts the Rogue which conflicts the Gnome and requires the Wizard to either stand up to his family and renounce them publicly or side with them ... which would impact on the Gnomes public duty as a cop ... basically wheels within wheels with every turn making the knots tighter. Aaron PS yeah, I’m evil
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drayle88
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 57
Preferred Game Systems: AlcheMonster D20
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Post by drayle88 on Oct 31, 2017 5:59:17 GMT -8
What’s the family background with the Wizard? Ie: social standing, position in the community, fathers occupation? The Rogue could fall afoul of the above mentioned permit scheme - not able to get permits for big scores and then tempt her with an opportunity that’s just too tempting to pass up. The opportunity would then arise for the Gnome to gain prestige with his estranged colleagues by apprehending the Rogue and confiscating her hard won prizes. Two for the price of one - especially if you can make the macguffin something the Gnome really doesn’t want to hand back to its original owners (because it would upset the balance of power in the local community or lead to common folk being exploited even more). Better yet, make the wizards family a real bunch of bastards who, if left unchecked, would do a ‘Saruman to the Shire’ in pursuit of personal profit and gain and have them have the macguffin that empowers their schemes and tempts the Rogue which conflicts the Gnome and requires the Wizard to either stand up to his family and renounce them publicly or side with them ... which would impact on the Gnomes public duty as a cop ... basically wheels within wheels with every turn making the knots tighter. Aaron PS yeah, I’m evil The Wizard is a high elf with no spine whatsoever. His idea of a promotion is a desk job AWAY from conflict. His father is high ranked in the force, perhaps second in the chain of command? Very bent on honor and family legacy. As far as the social standing for the group however, the gnome fighter and elf wizard are outsiders in the land. And going with the L5R way of thinking outsiders(gaijin) are NOT looked upon nicely. The only reason the group gets any respect some of the time is because Local Law Inforcement gave them a local badge, and that only helps so much. In short, every action the group takes requires almost double effort to even be taken seriously or be considered in the first place.
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Post by Kainguru on Oct 31, 2017 6:47:24 GMT -8
So, the wizards father could be the Police Chief, or administrator, responsible for making the ‘crime permit’ scheme work - because his boss, the Mayor’s Office has ordered him to ‘make it work’. He might even be the Mayor’s Police Liaison Officer? Thus responsible for law enforcement policy. Aaron
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Post by Kainguru on Oct 31, 2017 6:57:27 GMT -8
In fact, the Macguffin could be the 'crime permit ledger' (kept by the Wizards father). The Rogue needs to steal it because she's in hot water for stealing, without a permit, a significant haul (something really juicy and tempting) and the only way out is to steal the 'permit ledger' and either a) forge an entry or b) rely on it's absence to bluff it out ('But I had a permit honest, check the records', 'we can't they've gone missing', 'you'll just have to take me at my word then, shame <wink>'). either way her association with the Gnome would give him/her access to the ledger and a heads up on planned (permitted) crimes. Noting that the local population is getting tired of the whole 'crime by consent' business . . . Aaron
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 14:12:49 GMT -8
I love the permit scheme from Gotham, and actually it makes perfect sense in L5R. L5R honor transcends good/evil; it's really about your moral compass. That's why different clans gain or lose honor in different ways, like Scorpion risk a sizable honor hit for being truthful, unless they're following orders.
There is something like the permit scheme in the old L5R boxed set for City of Lies. The previous magistrate was murdered. As they investigate, they find out he was both honorable and 'on the take' - how did that work exactly? He kept the crime rates down to appease his bosses, and basically if one group got out of line, he and his men would crack down on them and reward the 'behaving' fireman gangs. Now, once crimes and attacks began targetting NOBLES? All bets were off and people started getting themselves perished...
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Post by ayslyn on Oct 31, 2017 19:33:29 GMT -8
You have gotten some great advice, both here and on the show, that I think will backfire horribly on you...
*holds up his hands* Wait a minute, please.... Let me explain.
In the game where the players ask the world of the demon, then absolutely, put the screws to them....
But lets look at the gnome who we're about to absolutely destroy.... His ask? A couple of healing potions.
Wait? What? First, I want to know how this encounter went down, because at this rate that gnome's player looks like the least imaginative guy evah....
Even rogue boy got himself a cool (hopefully) map. Wizzy gots his medal, erm.... I mean.... Courage. You can see those being worth having your demon wrecking them. But a few energy drinks?? I suspect that your gnome's player is gonna be REALLY, REALLY miffed at some SERIOUSLY disproportional responses....
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drayle88
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 57
Preferred Game Systems: AlcheMonster D20
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Post by drayle88 on Oct 31, 2017 20:49:55 GMT -8
You have gotten some great advice, both here and on the show, that I think will backfire horribly on you... *holds up his hands* Wait a minute, please.... Let me explain. In the game where the players ask the world of the demon, then absolutely, put the screws to them.... But lets look at the gnome who we're about to absolutely destroy.... His ask? A couple of healing potions. Wait? What? First, I want to know how this encounter went down, because at this rate that gnome's player looks like the least imaginative guy evah.... Even rogue boy got himself a cool (hopefully) map. Wizzy gots his medal, erm.... I mean.... Courage. You can see those being worth having your demon wrecking them. But a few energy drinks?? I suspect that your gnome's player is gonna be REALLY, REALLY miffed at some SERIOUSLY disproportional responses.... You hit on a very interesting note. The Map and the Potions are all lesser in terms of... overall impact. I would much rather let the smaller things end up being hard but not... earth shattering. I guess a better path would be to lead up to the bigger impact? Start small with the Rogue, then have a bigger hit with the Gnome, save the biggest hit for the Wizard?
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Post by ayslyn on Oct 31, 2017 21:11:05 GMT -8
I would probably flip the rogue and the gnome, personally. Depending, of course what the map is.... Presumably it was to something special and not just him expressing his cartographic love.
The other option is to let themselves dig themselves deeper.... Making those above responses more proportional. This demon is going to always want to get the better of any given deal, so every time he makes them repay their wishes, it's more than what they got, but not so much as to scare them away. So Mr. Gnome asks for some potions, later the demon asks for an item that they just got on an adventure that is worth more than the potions... So, he's coming across as a sort of "friendly" loan shark. Give them opportunities to go back and utilize his services again, for hopefully bigger and bigger things, each time getting more and more in debt with him.
Soon enough, you've got them in so deep that the nuclear responses begin to make sense for him.
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Post by Kainguru on Nov 1, 2017 2:32:43 GMT -8
Again, I think Gotham, as an overall series, has some good storyline hooks and tropes to utilise to this end. Everyone starts out small and either good intentioned or self interested and then they all start digging holes for themselves at a furious rate - Penguin, Riddler, especially Butch, not to mention Jim Gordon and Bruce Wayne and family ... all the time you have people behind the people behind the people (Crime families - Arkham - Court of Owls - etc) Aaron
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Post by SledgehammerMonk on Nov 2, 2017 23:04:15 GMT -8
The Map and the potions can seem to be of lesser overall impact if you allow them to be, but honestly I can see a lot of potential in them as well.
First off let me say this, it appears that you want Tahm to be a thorn in the side of the party/group so why not play that up. From the way you have described him Tahm feels like a Trickster God who survives of the chaos and calamities that he provides. If this is the case do not let him disappear from the game, keep him in the shadow and have him quietly pulling the strings throughout the story. Make it feel like his presence is always looming over the party in some manner. It doesn't need to feel malevolent but just there. One way you can do this is creating little cinematic scenes that tie into the story. Have them focus on Tahm as he watches the party from afar and plots his actions against the players or against other npcs. This would always keep Tahm in the mind of the players and present you with interesting story ideas. I did this idea for my Star Wars campaign I ran for my friends several years ago. Basically at the end of each session I had an "epilogue" written out that starred characters that they ran into or met in later sessions. These scenes had these characters reacting to or doing things that the players did during the previous sessions. In these "epilogues" I introduced the main antagonist, The Sith Apprentice, who chased after them as they looked for the Star Maps. As the sessions rolled by I revealed his motivations and his search for the party, which allowed me to show how awesome and dangerous this character was for the group. These epilogues allowed me to hype up the apprentice and excite/terrify my players when they finally crossed paths with him. As I said these "epilogues" allowed me to keep The Apprentice in the story and in the minds of the players as well as allowing the story to have a more cinematic feel. While the apprentice's actions did have some influence on the direction of the story, he was almost always reacting to the decisions and actions of the party. Anyway, that's just an idea you can use to keep Tahm's presence known to the players.
Now back to the potions and map, just because these things are not as specific as the sword of courage doesn't mean you can't have fun with them and spin some interesting ideas out of them. If these items seem somewhat generic add a hook or caveat to them (and reading your post it appears you have some ideas for them). Make the items lead the players to what they desire but have them face repercussions because of the items at the same time, basically make them a "Monkey Paws wish". One idea I have for the potions is that not only are they health potions but they also give the player a boost in a certain stat or attribute for a short time or allow him to gain some form of clairvoyance. These additional bonuses would allow the Gnome the ability to solve the cases and start gaining the respect they so desperately crave. HOWEVER, there is a consequence to using these potions, they are addictive. The more the player uses one of these potions, the more the player needs them to function in their day to day operations or they start to believe that they need the potions to function. Introduce the idea slowly that these potions are beginning to cause hallucinations or they cause situations to arise because the player cannot control the clairvoyant powers the potions once gave them. Have the player understand that there is a real danger to using these potions. Also only provide the player a limited amount of potions, but always have more potions delivered to them (by Tahm) when they start to run low. Basically have Tahm be his provider and have Tahm string him along throughout the campaign. This would allow Tahm to remain in the story (for the Gnome) and show how dealing with him has consequences.
As for the rogue and the map, what I would suggest is to make it something like the Marauder's Map from Harry Potter. Make it a map that is magical and can be used multiple times and while it might provide information regarding the location of treasure, obstacles and enemies, but what if it not always told the truth. What if it played on the idea of moving, hiding or lying to player just enough that they have to consider the option that the map is lying or tricking them. Play with the idea of fool's gold, or the idea that some treasures are not going to be what they appear to be. Again, provide a hook and reason for the player to use the map but also a consequence for using it. Like you stated above every time they decide to use the map to look for ways to sneak and steal items, if they use the map then the treasure/reward becomes smaller or not as powerful (items have lower charges, wands are somewhat under-powered). One other consequence of the map is that the thief slowly becomes targeted by the city guard and other thieves, as they desire to put a stop to their crime spree or desire to take what is making them so successful. Make their notoriety very difficult to hide from, but of course Tahm could always be their waiting in the wings to lend the thief a helping hand... for a price of course.
Like I said, I think you are on the right paths with these ideas. I just thought I could throw my two cents into this conversation. Hopefully it makes sense and you can understand my incoherent ramblings. Anyway keep up the good work, good luck and hopefully this was some help to you and if it wasn't maybe it provided you with some form of entertainment?
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drayle88
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 57
Preferred Game Systems: AlcheMonster D20
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Post by drayle88 on Nov 3, 2017 8:32:29 GMT -8
Updated above
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Post by Kainguru on Nov 4, 2017 2:17:47 GMT -8
Where do those Bonus Temporary Hitpoints 'come from'? what if they're 'borrowed' from someone else like a relative or loved one? NB: don't make it obvious, maybe have the 'donor' complain of feeling 'under weather' or 'falling ill' for few days after the potions are consumed - it should take a while for the PC's to see the correlation between drinking the potion and their significant other's being affected Aaron
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