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Post by Zaszamonde on Sept 16, 2018 16:22:18 GMT -8
Has anyone happily used the mass combat rules in an RPG? Or do you see that chapter say "Neat" and move on? I've been looking at a samurai adaptation for Moment of Truth and I realized for a warrior class intended to fight battles and wars, you don't really see mass combat in Legend of the Five Rings too much. Individual combat on a battlefield? Sure. But I haven't seen the mass combat rules in play.
If you have, what do you think of them? Does it enhance or detract from the game?
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Post by akavidar on Sept 16, 2018 16:51:44 GMT -8
Never used them for any game I can recall.
But an L5R game should have them for sure.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Sept 16, 2018 21:20:38 GMT -8
Has anyone happily used the mass combat rules in an RPG? Or do you see that chapter say "Neat" and move on? I've been looking at a samurai adaptation for Moment of Truth and I realized for a warrior class intended to fight battles and wars, you don't really see mass combat in Legend of the Five Rings too much. Individual combat on a battlefield? Sure. But I haven't seen the mass combat rules in play. If you have, what do you think of them? Does it enhance or detract from the game? I HAVE used the mass combat rules in L5R, and I love them! It recreates the chaos of battle incredibly well (IMO). I only did it once, with a large party (seven players on one side, two in the opposition), and they loved it BUT they had a few really lucky dice rolls. They changed the course of Rokugani history, as they helped the Hare defeat the Scorpion. Had the dice not gone in their favour it might have been a dispiriting experience. PCs Get wounds based on a single die roll and their position on the battle field.
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Post by Zaszamonde on Sept 17, 2018 14:48:42 GMT -8
Has anyone happily used the mass combat rules in an RPG? Or do you see that chapter say "Neat" and move on? I've been looking at a samurai adaptation for Moment of Truth and I realized for a warrior class intended to fight battles and wars, you don't really see mass combat in Legend of the Five Rings too much. Individual combat on a battlefield? Sure. But I haven't seen the mass combat rules in play. If you have, what do you think of them? Does it enhance or detract from the game? I HAVE used the mass combat rules in L5R, and I love them! It recreates the chaos of battle incredibly well (IMO). I only did it once, with a large party (seven players on one side, two in the opposition), and they loved it BUT they had a few really lucky dice rolls. They changed the course of Rokugani history, as they helped the Hare defeat the Scorpion. Had the dice not gone in their favour it might have been a dispiriting experience. PCs Get wounds based on a single die roll and their position on the battle field. Good to hear! L5R is hard to beat, so I'm debating on what I need to cover vs. want to cover. Have you played any other mass combat systems than L5R? I've honestly never seen mass combat rules used, so I'm just wondering.
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Ed from Minnesota
Apprentice Douchebag
Professional Gaming Slut
Posts: 56
Preferred Game Systems: See status.
Currently Playing: What is... "playing?"
Currently Running: Shadowrun, D&D 5th, Torg via Savage Worlds, HERO, Gurps One-Shots, CoC One-Shots
Favorite Species of Monkey: Monkey See. No wait... Monkey Do. Doo?
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Post by Ed from Minnesota on Sept 17, 2018 16:16:33 GMT -8
L5R is great because it is fast and players have impact. Same for Savage Worlds.
Chainmail (original) was a lot of fun, better than Battlesystem for AD&D.
Problem you usually run into is that most people dont want 8 hours of wargaming in their rpg. L5R and Savage Worlds handle it best that I have seen. GURPS Mass Combat may too, but I havent actually tried it.
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Post by Zaszamonde on Sept 17, 2018 16:33:11 GMT -8
L5R is great because it is fast and players have impact. Same for Savage Worlds. Chainmail (original) was a lot of fun, better than Battlesystem for AD&D. Problem you usually run into is that most people dont want 8 hours of wargaming in their rpg. L5R and Savage Worlds handle it best that I have seen. GURPS Mass Combat may too, but I havent actually tried it. I completely agree on having a simple, direct system for mass combat. I'm not a wargamer in the slightest, I just don't have the head for it. My current thoughts are to have the actual fighting be fast and light but to really focus the resources lost by warring. That's what John Wick's Blood & Honor focus on and I think it fits better for something more narrative. This does however mean I'd have to come up with a territorial resource system, probably based on Green Ronin's A Song of Ice and Fire.
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Ed from Minnesota
Apprentice Douchebag
Professional Gaming Slut
Posts: 56
Preferred Game Systems: See status.
Currently Playing: What is... "playing?"
Currently Running: Shadowrun, D&D 5th, Torg via Savage Worlds, HERO, Gurps One-Shots, CoC One-Shots
Favorite Species of Monkey: Monkey See. No wait... Monkey Do. Doo?
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Post by Ed from Minnesota on Sept 17, 2018 17:17:46 GMT -8
keep it to a few die rolls for each player, write down the results, then leave them at the table shaking your head. rolls should be for effect, danger, result. then come back in 20 minutes and narrate what happens. this is a war movie, so create a scene for each of the heroes and include good, bad, and impactful moment for each on the battlefield.
for an example using d20, 3 players go into battle. one fights, one heals, one sneaks. fighter makes a fighting roll (d20+attack=15), healer makes a healing roll (d20+medicine=23), and sneaker makes a sneak roll (d20+sneak=19). Then they make a defense roll of some sort. fighter rolls a defense check (d20+AC bonus = 22), healer makes a perception check (17), as does the sneaker (8). finally, the gm makes a battle result roll for each side. d20=9 for heroes, d20=14 for baddies. arbitrarily, every 5 for effect gives +1 to heroes, and every 5 below 20 for defence results in 4d6 damage (increased to 30 for the fighyer, because going toe to toe). so the heroes result bumps from 9 to 19. the fighter comes through with 8d6 damage, but the thief takes 12d6! now to the story...
Urgog the mighty leads a band of warriors into the heart of the fray. his axes chew through arms and necks as he roars in anger at the blades biting through his armor. It seems after every push into a knot of the enemy, there is always one more to take its place.
Basil the blessed is busy also, tending to the maimed and mortally wounded, trying to keep the mangled from joining the growing mounds of corpses. Soldiers rush in more wounded, anxious to try to save their friends and comrades. several times during the battle, the line of battle comes close, the clamor of weapons on armor coming from scant feet away. but basil works on tirelessly, saving all he can.
Tina the Thief spends much of the battle watching from a safe distance. when the moment presents itself, she strikes without warning at Captain Awesome, leader of the rebel army. Her blade bites deep, killing Captain Awesome in a spray of blood. unfortunately she made a miscalculation, and his bodyguard catch her before she can slip back into the chaos of battle....
at the end of the day, the rebel army is broken and the heroes prevail. the heroes get medals, and first drink is free at any tavern in the city. good job, heroes!
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Post by ayslyn on Sept 18, 2018 4:06:43 GMT -8
What I have done in the past is to make the armies into roughly fleshed out characters for the players. It has worked pretty well.
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Post by Zaszamonde on Sept 18, 2018 16:06:43 GMT -8
What I have done in the past is to make the armies into roughly fleshed out characters for the players. It has worked pretty well. Now that's an interesting idea! Basically tweak the character abilities and skills to be the "Army". Maybe Scout is Perception, Maneuver is Agility, Will is Morale, Training is Education. I'd have to think through it more to decide what the skills would be. Specific training?
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Post by HourEleven on Sept 19, 2018 12:19:54 GMT -8
What I have done in the past is to make the armies into roughly fleshed out characters for the players. It has worked pretty well. I’ve seen this done in FATE after Fred Hicks wrote his famous article about how everything is a character, a boat or a house fire could both be made as characters and interacted with the same way. “anything in the system can be treated as a character. That is to say, to model the thing you want, you should look at the pieces parts of a character, think about what they do, and use the parts that are most appropriate to express what you’re after. Reduce, reuse, recycle. There’s no need to invent new parts when a recombination of existing parts works out well” -fh This works for most any system, the important part being “what they do” and “what they express.”
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Post by weaselcreature on Sept 20, 2018 9:27:46 GMT -8
Mass Combat:
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Post by Zaszamonde on Sept 20, 2018 16:22:24 GMT -8
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