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Post by Arcona on May 13, 2013 14:41:55 GMT -8
Small parenthesis... Why are you judging an edition or a game in general based on a published adventure? I mean... seriously... you might hate or love 5th (or any edition) but I believe we can ALL say that published adventures suck big times. Since 1st edition 99.99% of published adventures and modules were boring as hell dungeon crawls with a sprinkle of plot and a taste of sense. From the killer rooms with traps that you could only solve if you were a deranged Malkavian to the random dungeon ecology ('cause a wizard put them there, narf! Hey Brain!') and the full of holes concept to the random encounters and treasure. I have only run/played -1- decent published adventure in 15 years of roleplaying... the Red Hand of Doom ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hand_of_Doom ). To give you an idea of how lame the past modules are, in the wikipedia article it compares it (from the terms of success) to Temple of Elemental Evil and the Keep on the Borderlands. Both of which were completely pointless hackfests with a little 'sauce' to make them stick!!!
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on May 14, 2013 7:51:07 GMT -8
Small parenthesis... Why are you judging an edition or a game in general based on a published adventure? I mean... seriously... you might hate or love 5th (or any edition) but I believe we can ALL say that published adventures suck big times. Since 1st edition 99.99% of published adventures and modules were boring as hell dungeon crawls with a sprinkle of plot and a taste of sense. From the killer rooms with traps that you could only solve if you were a deranged Malkavian to the random dungeon ecology ('cause a wizard put them there, narf! Hey Brain!') and the full of holes concept to the random encounters and treasure. I have only run/played -1- decent published adventure in 15 years of roleplaying... the Red Hand of Doom ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hand_of_Doom ). To give you an idea of how lame the past modules are, in the wikipedia article it compares it (from the terms of success) to Temple of Elemental Evil and the Keep on the Borderlands. Both of which were completely pointless hackfests with a little 'sauce' to make them stick!!! I'd have to agree that many published modules were often quite heavy handed with their railroading and often the plots were pretty crappy. But! I can't help but think of my favorite all time published adventure and it was this one: It did what I wish more modules would and that is present a quality story with numerous open ended possibilities. It was meant to transition DMs/PC's from dungeon crawls to more of an open wilderness, sandbox style world. It still holds up quite well 20+ years later. Night's Dark Terror was the first time I ever thought to keep track of weather and its effects on the PC's in my games. The guys that made it went on to create what for me is probably the most interesting and in depth fantasy campaign I have ever seen come from a published source. This was to be the main focus of the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay world which came out of a desire to merge fantasy settings with more of a horror based Call of Cthulhu setting. With sanity points and the resultant insanities, fear checks, fate points (proto-bennies), and exploding dice it was a rather innovative game. It is a rare occurrence to get a module that allows for enough freedom of character action to feel like its not utterly dependent on rails. But the authors of that campaign did a pretty good job. Gah! I just realized I wasn't going to comment on this thread anymore but my love for these books overrode my common sense! Curse you my internal fanboy! Curse...you...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2013 11:23:39 GMT -8
First, this all stems from Mike "I'm a fucking Douche" Mearls and his absolute lies during Cons. He HATES the make believe OSR, that is the one he never truly experienced. He trolls off of memes that existed in less than 1% of the population. He feeds off of 4E, that is until Next is out, then it will be the shit. Second, the Mines thing is NOT intended to salute Gygax/ToH; it was designed by Scott Kuntz of PVP and Chris Perkins, based off of the PVP comic about the Mines. Listen to the podcast from WotC The Fine Art of the DM. Third...Red Hand...? Really? Here is a brilliant synopsis: dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2013/04/everything-i-need-to-know-i-learned.html
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Post by CreativeCowboy on May 14, 2013 14:21:59 GMT -8
First, this all stems from Mike "I'm a fucking Douche" Mearls and his absolute lies during Cons. He HATES the make believe OSR, that is the one he never truly experienced. He trolls off of memes that existed in less than 1% of the population. He feeds off of 4E, that is until Next is out, then it will be the shit. Second, the Mines thing is NOT intended to salute Gygax/ToH; it was designed by Scott Kuntz of PVP and Chris Perkins, based off of the PVP comic about the Mines. Listen to the podcast from WotC The Fine Art of the DM. Third...Red Hand...? Really? Here is a brilliant synopsis: dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2013/04/everything-i-need-to-know-i-learned.html I get the same sinking impression: this Mearles guy is lying like a cheap rug. It also reflects in his choice of people he has around him, those that stay around him and those he pumps up. I didn't mention Monte on purpose. +1 Karma Truth Teller kosherinfidel!
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Post by ericfromnj on May 14, 2013 16:04:52 GMT -8
I found Mike Mearls to be a really nice guy - he even let me hump his leg once...
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Post by Kainguru on May 15, 2013 8:25:29 GMT -8
I found Mike Mearls to be a really nice guy - he even let me hump his leg once... Who payed for the dry cleaning bill? if he did fair enough, if you had to pick up the tab he just used you man like a cheap ho Aaron
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Post by Kainguru on May 15, 2013 8:51:46 GMT -8
Small parenthesis... Why are you judging an edition or a game in general based on a published adventure? I mean... seriously... you might hate or love 5th (or any edition) but I believe we can ALL say that published adventures suck big times. Since 1st edition 99.99% of published adventures and modules were boring as hell dungeon crawls with a sprinkle of plot and a taste of sense. From the killer rooms with traps that you could only solve if you were a deranged Malkavian to the random dungeon ecology ('cause a wizard put them there, narf! Hey Brain!') and the full of holes concept to the random encounters and treasure. I have only run/played -1- decent published adventure in 15 years of roleplaying... the Red Hand of Doom ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hand_of_Doom ). To give you an idea of how lame the past modules are, in the wikipedia article it compares it (from the terms of success) to Temple of Elemental Evil and the Keep on the Borderlands. Both of which were completely pointless hackfests with a little 'sauce' to make them stick!!! TOEE . . . I'm running it again after over 20years . . . it's NOT a hack fest - that way leads to certain death and a TPK. It does require a shit tone of prep and DM extrapolation to fit it into his/her world. It's less a complete module/adventure and more a framework on which to hang your ideas from . . . it seriously can't be run straight out of the box. The lack of railroad in terms of plot gives it a hack fest feel on first reading . . . but like many 1e modules of a certain type this element was left to the individual DM to decide. Why are the PC's there?, what do they know?, what motivates them to carry on? . . . that's entirely up to the person running the module rather than a 'story set in stone' (which was a style later popularised by the, IMHO, dreadful railroad that was Dragonlance*). In my current campaign the are several motivations now in play . . . blood debt being one, seeking answers to their past is another and being tasked by their current employers is a third. TOEE stands up because every time it is played it can be radically different due to the DM running it and the players involved. As it says in the introduction to Hommlet "there are wheels within wheels" . . . which 'wheel' becomes significant is upto the DM and his/her players. It even says if the players approach the final Temple complex as a hack and slash they will probably die very very quickly. Subterfuge intelligence gathering and playing off the different factions against each other is the best strategy - and that depends a lot on the kind of life the DM breaths into the raw stats of the key NPC's Aaron
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Jun 19, 2013 23:19:23 GMT -8
Laura's cute but Al wrote this, no doubt. This has a lot of relevance to the D&D brand. "DOuble Branding" is just another way to refer to brand extension. I have commented on it before.
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