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Post by ayslyn on Jul 16, 2013 8:53:08 GMT -8
Soooooo.... You haven't actually read the article, but you're ranting about it.... Riiiiiiiight. And you wonder why people aren't taking you seriously. Wisdom means you do not have to experience everything to avoid crap. You just have to know enough to watch where you step. I hope you'll grok that one day. Life will be easier for you then. Some people seem never get that. And wisdom also teaches that we shouldn't assume that we know everything already. For instance, had you actually bothered to READ the article, and didn't just assume you knew what it would say, you might have learned that feats are being designed as an optional system, because some groups don't like them. So... Mearls and crew understood that some groups dig them, and others don't. So, they're designing the game with both groups in mind...
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Post by Kainguru on Jul 16, 2013 10:21:16 GMT -8
My air conditioner just bust and the marshmallows fizzed into charcoal in an instant . . . Aaron We. May. Have. Just. Discovered..a New Energy Source! The opposite of a cold fusion reactor? Possibly a dark energy collector? Aaron
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Post by Kainguru on Jul 16, 2013 10:21:42 GMT -8
My air conditioner just bust and the marshmallows fizzed into charcoal in an instant . . . Aaron We. May. Have. Just. Discovered..a New Energy Source! The opposite of a cold fusion reactor? Possibly a dark energy collector? Aaron
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Jul 16, 2013 10:24:49 GMT -8
Wisdom means you do not have to experience everything to avoid crap. You just have to know enough to watch where you step. I hope you'll grok that one day. Life will be easier for you then. Some people seem never get that. And wisdom also teaches that we shouldn't assume that we know everything already. For instance, had you actually bothered to READ the article, and didn't just assume you knew what it would say, you might have learned that feats are being designed as an optional system, because some groups don't like them. So... Mearls and crew understood that some groups dig them, and others don't. So, they're designing the game with both groups in mind... See, I read for comprehension not word count. I grok that message. Pearls from Mearls "I think the designers have lost faith in the core essence of the RPG." Players. This would be the players. The core essence of the RPG is its players! - me, editorializing, pointing out what I should think is the obvious.the response is 'What the hell is that?'" he said. "I know what it is because I worked on it, but it's not even in the Player's Handbook. If you [publish] too much, that shared language, it just evaporates." Mearls. Addressing the common sense problem why 5e will fail. Then forgets himself. "D&D isn't one game, it's a range of games," said Mearls. Mearls is less dedicated to reuniting the fractured audience rather than catering to each new niche in turn. - Author summing up the interviewee, Mike Mearls. But it is a mess. Feats are a sign of that mess. Options - as in these are your options - is another way to say railroady GM. Far cry from one DM equal to another. Far cry from role-playing if anybody asks me. "Modularity" is the new "splatbook."
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Post by Arcona on Jul 16, 2013 12:31:51 GMT -8
Hahahaha
So Gygax doing a halfassed job and giving you an incomplete product an calling it 'one DM to another' is somehow better than being given multiple options to choose from? And each of those options is defined and clearly outlines so you can build on it, adapt it or whatever but at least have a foundation to work with!
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Post by Kainguru on Jul 16, 2013 12:41:58 GMT -8
To be fair GG didn't produce a half arsed product he produced a product of its time. It's a bit like bitching about the fact that an Aston Martin DB IV handles like crap cause it uses leaf spring suspension and other cutting edge tech, for the time, while the latest Toyota rustcrapper can spin on a dime. *more wood! more coal! get some petrol on there!* Aaron
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Post by Arcona on Jul 16, 2013 12:46:12 GMT -8
Yea but I dont think vintage Aston Martin (or its fans) go around Formula 1 circuits and yell "you guys suck! You are doing it wrong! 320 mph thats just being a munchkin!"
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Post by Kainguru on Jul 16, 2013 13:16:15 GMT -8
Yeah I was just trying to defend GG as if Aston Martin fans DID do that it's not the designers fault, nor are the flaws inherent in the design of the DB IV. Besides you can get a £10000 upgrade package for the DB IV that gives it active suspension and ceramic brakes and tunes the engine so that actually can deliver the HP to torque it promised (but failed to give when tested). If I win the lottery I want one Aaron
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Jul 16, 2013 14:43:30 GMT -8
Yea but I dont think vintage Aston Martin (or its fans) go around Formula 1 circuits and yell "you guys suck! You are doing it wrong! 320 mph thats just being a munchkin!" Vintage Astin Martin fans do not but I do notice that modern design RPGs devotees sure do when it comes to referencing what they call old school. Maybe because Astin MArtin fans have more class. I do not know what might prevent them from acting like entitled citizens of their hobby. Less and less space for user innovation remains once something has been over engineered. Like any media, manuals work to frame the mind. Maybe Gygax was a genius who understood this, enshrining "one DM equal to another" in his rules, or maybe he just did not know better (or enough I can hear you say) to fit every possible movement a player could choose to make into some core or optional rule. Tabletop RPGs will never be a computerized system but not from what I can see is a lack of trying.
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Post by Stu Venable on Jul 16, 2013 14:50:24 GMT -8
Being neck deep in my own RPG design, I'm pretty sure Gygax just wanted it finished so he could ship it to the printer.
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maxinstuff
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Post by maxinstuff on Jul 16, 2013 15:04:07 GMT -8
Being neck deep in my own RPG design, I'm pretty sure Gygax just wanted it finished so he could ship it to the printer. Designing or writing? Attachments:
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Post by Stu Venable on Jul 16, 2013 15:16:05 GMT -8
Well, both.
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Post by ayslyn on Jul 16, 2013 15:55:48 GMT -8
I liked 1e. I still like 1e. But, it had it's faults.
Just like 2e did, 3e did, 3.5 had more, 4e did, and 5e will.
There is no such thing at the perfect game.
I'm not taking exception to you liking 1e. I'm not taking exception to you not liking 5e. I'm taking exception to certain completely outlandish statements you keep making. Fun things like "I never read this article, but let me tell you what he's got wrong!!"
I've read one Kurt Vonegut book. I disliked it so very, very much that I will never read anything by him again. I understand that this is my issue, and take no exception to others consuming and enjoying his works. Just don't ask me to do so. No, I don't care that apparently I chose the absolute worst entry point into his body of works. I will not give the man a second chance.
You, on the other hand, seem to take great exception to people playing anything other than your preferred system. Or enjoying options that you don't enjoy. Don't like feats? Don't bloody well use them! However, making such patently silly statements like "Feats kill teh RP!!!one!" just makes you look silly.
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Jul 16, 2013 18:57:07 GMT -8
Was there a memo sent around that I missed? One that says the D&D 5e forum is actually the Happy Jack's Fight Club Arena? Cause that's sure how it feels. I think I said this somewhere else, or maybe I just said it to myself. I can't remember. But anyway, I think there are some big flaws in the goals Mearls and Co are setting. 1) Making Feats equal to a +1 boost to an ability score. The problem with this is it's a very nebulous and variable unit of measure. Is boosting an ability score from 12 to 13 worth the same as boosting that ability score from 19 to 20? Is boosting an ability score in your primary attribute worth the same as boosting a dump stat ability score? In my opinion there are too many conditionals to make "+1 to an ability score" a useful unit of measure. 2) Assuming that players will take both a mix of ability score boosts and Feats, when Feats are being used. I think this is a dangerous thing to assume, as you may end up with broken math. If official WotC adventures are built assuming that groups using the optional Feat rules will also take ability score boosts, will the challenges be too difficult for player who've chosen only Feats for their character? Possibly. What percentage of ability score boosts is WotC assuming players will swap for Feats? 50%? 25%? 75%? Whatever they decide on, players who don't take that percentage will be at a disadvantage.
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D.T. Pints
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Post by D.T. Pints on Jul 16, 2013 19:34:10 GMT -8
Look at you crunching all those numbers...I thought you'd left all that shit behind Timothy Leary...
Remember the first rule about 5e... WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT 5e...
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