|
Post by shadrack on Jul 24, 2013 11:29:54 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Stu Venable on Jul 24, 2013 12:36:59 GMT -8
Wow.
It totally sounds like that guy pissed away 122,000 dollars.
Not only did he fuck 1200 people, but he sullied the names of two game designers that haven't seen one penny from him.
I'm blogging about this.
|
|
|
Post by shadrack on Jul 24, 2013 13:27:09 GMT -8
I think it was more money than that. The post mentions paying back the people who gave them 'preorders' after the kickstarter closed. He's paying people back in this order (sounds like to me) 1) preorders (post kickstarter payers) 2) KS backers (high donors to low) Fred Hicks did a google+ post about it as well. It's worth a read and highlights some of this guys major screwups. plus.google.com/u/0/105843491826683668595/posts/R9d6iS9rxjU
|
|
|
Post by shadrack on Jul 24, 2013 13:36:09 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Stu Venable on Jul 24, 2013 15:27:16 GMT -8
Hicks is right on.
I feel bad for the two designers. All they did was be nice guys and let the guy publish their game -- probably with the understanding that he'd pay licensing of some sort after the game shipped. I hope their reputations don't get sullied, because they're trying to make it right, and they didn't even see a penny of the cash.
|
|
|
Post by Stu Venable on Jul 24, 2013 15:28:08 GMT -8
The most perplexing thing is that Wired did a review of the game and most of the components were there (except the figures).
|
|
maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
Favorite Species of Monkey: Proboscis
|
Post by maxinstuff on Jul 24, 2013 18:04:48 GMT -8
If a kickstarter project fails the backers are entitled to precisely dick right?
Pre-orders might be a different story - if the guy has pissed that money away too then there are issues beyond a failed kickstarter......
|
|
|
Post by shadrack on Jul 24, 2013 18:42:59 GMT -8
kickstarter's terms of service have a couple interesting bullets. www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use- Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward.
- Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.
Sounds like he's got some dough to fork over. Helloooo bankruptcy.
|
|
maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
Favorite Species of Monkey: Proboscis
|
Post by maxinstuff on Jul 24, 2013 19:32:32 GMT -8
Wow that is baked into the kickstarter terms....
I didn't know that.
I guess it makes sense as backers are not in any way entitled to a 'piece of the action' if the project is successful - this makes the relationship a lot more 'transactional'.
|
|
|
Post by Stu Venable on Jul 24, 2013 20:43:15 GMT -8
A lot of people don't know that. I've pointed numerous people to the Kickstart FAQ.
It very much is a pre-sale platform. Those who say it isn't are simply wrong. Supposedly the wording of the project organizer agreement was different once upon a time, but now the organizer agrees that backer rewards do constitute an agreement.
This is not to say that there are not risks in engaging in presales. Besides the obvious fact that you're buying something that does not yet exist -- trusting the organizer won't flake and his buddy who's doing the art won't flake, etc.
There also the fact that unintended things might happen to the inventory before it gets distributed. A company like Steve Jackson Games might have enough insurance to cover it if, say, the warehouse holding the Ogre games burns to the ground. But you think most organizers are going to do that? Or accounted for the cost of insuring what they're working on?
And when it comes down to it, you can't get blood out of a turnip. So regardless of how many people file charges against this "Doom" guy and how many people have lawyers send him threatening letters, there's no way to get him to unspend the money.
All they're likely to do is force him to declare bankruptcy, and turn the chances anyone might see their money returned from slim to zero.
|
|
maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
Favorite Species of Monkey: Proboscis
|
Post by maxinstuff on Jul 24, 2013 20:52:00 GMT -8
All the risks of venture capital with none of the payoff.
JOY!
|
|
|
Post by shadrack on Jul 24, 2013 21:13:31 GMT -8
Caveat emptor baby!
|
|
|
Post by Stu Venable on Jul 24, 2013 21:30:06 GMT -8
Maxinstuff: you have it EXACTLY right. Except in most cases you get the product.
From the point of view of the organizer it is a distributed risk system.
|
|
kroh
Supporter
Posts: 132
|
Post by kroh on Jul 24, 2013 22:24:37 GMT -8
Wow! This does not give something like Kickstarter a good rep.
|
|
maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
Favorite Species of Monkey: Proboscis
|
Post by maxinstuff on Jul 24, 2013 22:43:44 GMT -8
Maxinstuff: you have it EXACTLY right. Except in most cases you get the product. From the point of view of the organizer it is a distributed risk system. The term 'risk distribution platform' is not nearly as sexy as 'crowdfunding platform'. But I like it
|
|