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Post by henryhankovitch on Dec 29, 2013 1:49:16 GMT -8
I'm GMing my first L5R game, and we just had our chargen session. I don't think I have any specific questions yet, but I'm certainly interested in brainstorming and feedback.
I had six players today. I'll be surprised if all six are "regulars"--one of them has work that keeps him from attending every week, and one other guy has been sketchy in attendance in the past. But the core group is pretty solid. I'm running them as a group of Emerald Magistrates. We did some background vignettes today, and should be starting the actual game plot next week.
The PCS:
A Crane bushi with courtier leanings; basically an arrogant fop with a nasty dueling streak. He took the "infamous" disad; and in chatting about it at the table we eventually settled on the idea that he had killed a prominent Lion noble's son in a duel to first blood. So while his character was technically without reproach, he's commonly thought to have deliberately struck to kill. He also spent 15 points on the Gentry advantage, making him the head of a large village. I might ask him to re-allocate these points, as his status as a Magistrate will probably keep his PC away from his fief, and may keep him from actually reaping any advantage from it.
We have a Crab bushi, a young samurai who has managed to pick up some Shadowland taint already (another disad).
I have TWO--count'em--Unicorn bushi. They ended up settling on being cousins, and have very similar mechanical builds despite some ribbing about the "retarded Mongol brothers." One guy took the Bitter Betrothal disad, which spun off into the longest and most fun vignette of the night. We ended up with a story of his engagement and marriage to a Crane woman (thus settling a border dispute), who has been completely unimpressed with her unkempt, uncivilized Unicorn husband. So they now have this completely frigid, childless marriage. In contrast, his cousin (the other PC) has a content marriage with a son, which I then pointed out would make him the likeliest heir to their uncle's holdings. This has set up a nice bit of tension between the two friendly PCs, and also potential political complications with the Crane. The PC with the bad marriage has even taken on a concubine, with whom he's intending to sire a son for adoption. THAT CAN'T POSSIBLY CAUSE PROBLEMS!
There's a Phoenix shugenja, who hasn't really been fleshed out yet; it was the last PC to be made. I also have a Scorpion ninja ("shosuro infiltrator") with a kleptomaniac bent. This can't possibly cause problems for the PCs either.
I've got a somewhat skeleton plot in mind for next week: this ship was attacked by pirates over there, and they made off with an artifact that was supposed to be in Imperial hands, so go find it--even if the daimyo of the province in question denies any pirate activity. I didn't want to get too involved with planning a campaign plot before I had any sense of the party's collective history.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2013 4:24:27 GMT -8
Don't know whether you're particularly bothered but going through what you've said about the characters this one jumps out at me as a potential issue. Firstly, as written, it sounds like the character would fit better in a D&D campaign than L5R and that the player may not realise how much of an issue they could cause for the rest of the party, I mean a kleptomaniac is bad enough but ninja, that's just asking to be executed on the spot. The second reason I'd be weary is that this PC is going to need a lot of side boarding as they can't use their primary skills in front of the rest of the group, which put together is why I personally prefer to keep the Scorpion as NPCs.
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SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on Dec 31, 2013 5:26:55 GMT -8
Don't know whether you're particularly bothered but going through what you've said about the characters this one jumps out at me as a potential issue. Firstly, as written, it sounds like the character would fit better in a D&D campaign than L5R and that the player may not realise how much of an issue they could cause for the rest of the party, I mean a kleptomaniac is bad enough but ninja, that's just asking to be executed on the spot. The second reason I'd be weary is that this PC is going to need a lot of side boarding as they can't use their primary skills in front of the rest of the group, which put together is why I personally prefer to keep the Scorpion as NPCs. I can't agree more. To me the biggest red flag of "not ready for Rokugan" is the player who wants to make this character.They obviously just don't get it. Outside of that though, I see one MAJOR issue: This guy would likely be a ronin for killing someone in a duel to first blood. He dishonored the duel, the duelist, and his school. Killing someone in a duel to first blood shows a lack of ability and/or restraint and is HIGHLY dishonorable. IF he survived the ordeal intact then it took some massive leveraging by someone high up in which case he owes a massive debt to someone and more than likely it also earned him a major sworn enemy in his opponent's family. I'd even go so far as to say if he did make it through the ordeal he might have been cast out of his school.
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Post by henryhankovitch on Jan 1, 2014 23:20:19 GMT -8
This guy would likely be a ronin for killing someone in a duel to first blood. He dishonored the duel, the duelist, and his school. Killing someone in a duel to first blood shows a lack of ability and/or restraint and is HIGHLY dishonorable. IF he survived the ordeal intact then it took some massive leveraging by someone high up in which case he owes a massive debt to someone and more than likely it also earned him a major sworn enemy in his opponent's family. I'd even go so far as to say if he did make it through the ordeal he might have been cast out of his school. I'll be the first to admit I'm no expert on Rokugan fluff. But nothing I've read so far in the main rulebook would indicate this is that severe an issue. After all, it even specifically says that duels to the death without permission, despite being a violation of your duty to your lord, are frequently overlooked with slap-on-the-wrist penalties. It seems to be assumed that samurai are gonna samurai, and you may as well look the other way until it becomes an actual problem. Additionally, I'm going with the assumption that swinging a chunk of sharp steel at another guy wearing nothing but silk robes is a high-risk sort of hobby. I would be surprised if accidental maiming or deaths WEREN'T an occasional and excusable outcome of first-blood duels. Unless you've got a healing shugenja at hand (which sure, a lot of respectable types might do), there's not a great distance between a picturesque scratch on the cheek and a severed jugular that kills in seconds. That's not to say that people will like you if you cripple someone's sword hand in a nonlethal duel; but I'm not convinced it's an automatic "turn in your badge and your katana and get thee to the Wall" sort of offense. So this may boil down to "my Rokugan vs your Rokugan," but I don't see this being a setting-breaking thing. Yeah, it's the sort of thing that people are going to be rightly pissed about. He's Infamous for a reason--he's that guy that takes dueling too far, how shameful. But I can still see it being the sort of thing you could get away with by following the letter of the law, honor wise. And the character does actually have powerful protection: he paid the maximum points for the Allies advantage. So we've settled on the idea that he's often doing favors for somebody powerful when he duels somebody else. The idea that he's both favored and hated by powerful people is a major element to the character. But if there's material that elaborates more thoroughly on dueling culture and the like, I'd certainly be interested to read it.
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Post by henryhankovitch on Jan 1, 2014 23:23:13 GMT -8
]Don't know whether you're particularly bothered but going through what you've said about the characters this one jumps out at me as a potential issue. Firstly, as written, it sounds like the character would fit better in a D&D campaign than L5R and that the player may not realise how much of an issue they could cause for the rest of the party, I mean a kleptomaniac is bad enough but ninja, that's just asking to be executed on the spot. The second reason I'd be weary is that this PC is going to need a lot of side boarding as they can't use their primary skills in front of the rest of the group, which put together is why I personally prefer to keep the Scorpion as NPCs. Yeah, this is definitely something that we're going to keep an eye out for. The guy playing this Scorp is the guy whose work will keep him from attending every session, so he'd likely end up being somewhat sidelined in the plot anyway. But we may have to renegotiate if this concept becomes unwieldy in practice. I'll own it as a rookie mistake on my part if that happens.
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Post by ayslyn on Jan 2, 2014 0:53:37 GMT -8
In canon Rokugan, SG is right. Killing or even maiming in a first blood duel is a BDD (Big Damn Deal). As a duelist, you are supposed to be an expert at the duel. More than a light wound shows that you don't have enough control.
And you're right. It's a high risk deal. It's also irrelevant. There's a TON of situations where reality and logistics are irrelevant to societies expectations of you. It's the cornerstone of the Samurai Drama.
That being said, it is, of course, YOUR Rokugan. So do whatever you like.
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SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on Jan 2, 2014 5:29:09 GMT -8
In canon Rokugan, SG is right. Killing or even maiming in a first blood duel is a BDD (Big Damn Deal). As a duelist, you are supposed to be an expert at the duel. More than a light wound shows that you don't have enough control. This is entirely my point. One of the biggest reasons that duels are used as ways to settle disputes is because of the purity of the contest. Its one person's skill pitted against another's. Nothing should taint that interaction. This is why no shugenja or magic are allowed as part of the duel. No one would accept the outcome of a duel if the duel's outcome were suspect all the time. Now be that as it may, as you mentioned this is YOUR Rokugan, but I still think you should give more repercussions than a slap on the wrist in this matter. Think about it for a moment. A samurai of one clan deprived a lord of another clan one of his trusted servants because of a mistake. Lets move that to a different instance outside of a duel. If this character(who we'll say is a renowned wrestler) had walked up to his dueling partner outside of the confines of a duel and said "Hey man, wanna wrestle? No big deal just a friendly tustle in the dirt." The opponent agreed and then the character proceeded to break his neck... wouldn't you think it would cause an issue? Someone who is known as a good wrestler "accidentally" kills a samurai from another clan in a friendly wrestling match. Clan wars were started over less. I just think you should think about it.
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Post by henryhankovitch on Jan 2, 2014 10:55:51 GMT -8
To put it in another context, the reason I really like two of these characters--the Crane asshole and the bad Unicorn husband--is that they've already handed me their fatal flaws. Before the campaign has even started, I know who is coming after their heads, and why.
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Post by joecrak on Jan 29, 2014 13:54:53 GMT -8
I think the point SG is trying to make, can sort of come down to this: the Crane duelist willingly an knowingly chose to kill his opponent.
This can be explained both in narrative and mechanics, as whenever dice are rolled you choose what to keep, you do not have to choose the highest.
So when his sword struck he chose to go for the kill, (keeping the high dice). Whereas another that has more control, chose to strike and do little damage, because it was to first strike, and it would be an insult to cause unnecessary harm to your foe.
Regardless of all that I look forward to hearing how things turn out.
I myself am looking for suggestions on how to run a wedding in the game, two PCs became betrothed during the Topaz championship due to the actions of one.
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Post by yojimbohawkins on Jan 29, 2014 14:50:34 GMT -8
The Emerald Empire sourcebook is a good resource for the format of weddings, funerals & other customs, and how each Clan makes them their own. Very good for that sort of thing.
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Post by joecrak on Feb 3, 2014 16:10:16 GMT -8
Checked out the section on the weddings, and it was some neat information. But I'm looking for help on something I created and am sticking to. Stole some of this stuff from SirGuido L5R games, and would love some insight from him as well. Topaz Championship: A NPC mantis asked the PC's in help arranging a marriage with the Togashi Monk. They helped him get all the gifts. He later died after delivering the gifts. one of the Mantis PC's reclaimed the NPC's daisho and returned them to Mantis daimyo at the tournament. This same PC already had agreed to an arranged marriage to one of an Ikoma NPC's sisters in return for a gift from the Lion clan. Well he's before the Mantis heads, and they make it known, they want the Mantis Dragon Marriage to happen, and are planning to use him. unless he finds another (Needless he was pissed at me when he realized that, which was fun). The other PC playing a Mantis eventually agreed to marry the Togashi. So they met, and it was clear that both participants in the marriage were doing so because of their superiors. (Which i know isn't how the Togashi prob do things, but It's my world now.) The Togashi ended up winning the Topaz Championship. when we play next i will have the Togashi being a higher status than the Mantis PC arranged to her. A question i pose to others: Should I force the Mantis to join the Dragon clan because of the higher status bride. They would not be allowed to take the Togashi name however. Or. Should I have the Dragon join the Mantis Clan, but keep their name? Also, i'm looking for good ways to try and make the Weddings itself a fun part of the session. (if it matters for people's thoughts, both Mantis PC's are Tsuruchi, 1 Bounty Hunter, and 1 Archer) I'm not as worried about the Lion Mantis wedding as i have bigger plans for the PC and him trying to impress the father of the Ikoma, to see which daughter he will end up being allowed to marry. All thoughts are welcome and encouraged.
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Post by SirGuido on Feb 4, 2014 5:18:08 GMT -8
Yes he should join the Dragon, 100%. Include a mini archery tournament as part of the wedding festivities.
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Post by joecrak on Feb 10, 2014 12:56:53 GMT -8
Just looking for thoughts on the following rule/guideline.
Lore skills that are considered low skills. The use of them is supposed to cause an honor loss.
But the use of them is basically remembering something they already know.
So what are people's reasons for defending why an individual should lose honor for choosing to remember something?
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Post by yojimbohawkins on Feb 12, 2014 14:37:37 GMT -8
Because Honour is an intrinsic part of the Celestial Order. Low skills represent a subject matter not in keeping with Bushido, much like other societal taboos like touching dead flesh and wearing leather. Using a low skill in any way affects the character's standing in the Celestial Order, which in turn affects their judgement by Emma-O in Meido, and lessens their chance of a decent outcome in the reincarnation cycle (there's a lot of this stuff in Secrets of the Empire).
Of course, none of this could mean anything to your players. If our character dies, we just roll up a new one, right? I've tried tackling that by having a group play their descendants (like the Saga of the Inukai) in a second campaign; Rokugan is big on the "sins of your fathers" affecting your social standing, which is everything to a samurai. It worked...ish. Ultimately that sort of thing depends on your version of Rokugan, and how much the players buy into it.
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Post by joecrak on Feb 12, 2014 20:21:33 GMT -8
I get all that, but the act of remembering something causing the honor loss, versus them having learned it in the first place.
When it comes to lore skills, i find it to be a wonky area, and yet I certainly agree some of the lore skills are clearly dishonorable to have knowledge of. Maho for example.
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