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Post by Stu Venable on Jan 14, 2014 23:11:41 GMT -8
If you don't want spoilers about the Inukai game, stop reading
Seriously, go away.
So I've got the first session (or maybe two) prepped.
I have the PCs - Kimi's Crane duelist, Stork's Mantis/Fox Shugenja, Dave's Crane Courtier with Lion Training, and Tyler's Crane/Lion born/Scorpion adopted Bushi.
I've come up with Apocalypse World-type questions (thanks DT Pints) to unite them as a party.
I have the first plot hook laid (a murder!). It involves the honor of the Inukai family.
But there are two possible long-term stories. And I can steer things at this point by the plot hooks I drop.
Plot One The mysterious Inukai ancestor/maho-tsukai story. This would be a pretty straight-forward "hunt down the bad guy and hope he hasn't accumulated too much power and kill him" scenario. It would be complicated by the fact that there's a branch of the Inukai family the party's never known about (the Oak Clan -- their mon, with four branches and four roots looks very spider like...).
Plot Two The other is the culmination of a long term plan (cooked up by Daimyos Junichiro and Renjro from a generation ago). Their idea was to create a new clan based on the Inukai that is made up of members of various disabused vassal families of other clans -- some Lion, some Mantis, some Crab. I'm leaning toward this plot, because the stakes are higher. How would four great clans react to their vassal families presuming to gain clan status? Hilarity would not ensue.
There are ways I can intermingle the two plots, but that would create a MUCH longer game than I think we'd be able to play. This might involve (I assume) the party somehow usurping control of the Oak Clan, and convincing the other vassal families to join, and dealing with the massive and violent repercussions brought on by the other clans.
It's possible to do, but again, I'm looking at a 10-15 session game.
If you as a player could choose one of the two, which do you think you'd be most interested in?
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D.T. Pints
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Post by D.T. Pints on Jan 14, 2014 23:29:51 GMT -8
Well I love LONG campaigns. And honestly I think sometimes what we imagine is a long campaign could in fact be boiled down (and perhaps should) to a shorter one. I as a GM have so many damn ideas floating around in my head I really would like to get to them all. But, sometimes that story arc would be sooooo long that it will lose momentum. I definitely enjoyed Sir Guido's culmination of my Topaz Champion story arc in about 8 sessions and it ended with a big bad ass battle using the mass combat rules (which I think are excellent!). It sounds like your L5R group often has numerous schedule conflicts and its difficult to meet regularly...again a good reason to pair down the story arc. If you get to play once a month, what would a ten session campaign look like ? The group sorta knows the rules know, they grok Rokugan so the learning curve is far less steep than it was in Part I.
I also think that when we as GMs put a relatively firm limit to the number of sessions it can serve as a helpful reminder to keep the events occurring in the background bumping along. And for a once a month game I can't imagine that being perceived as railroading.
So I vote for the very Kurosawa sounding second game. That at some point will culminate with those four glorious honor bound bastards charging headlong into the fray followed by hordes of loyal followers...
Cheers,
Curt (DT Pints) (Mrs.)
And just to prove how much fun I had with Sir Guido's game I'll REpost my AMMMMAAZING trailer to our final session.
Again I apologize for bleeding ears, but man that big battle was great...we even had a much beloved player character meet a glorious end.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2014 5:02:42 GMT -8
From both a player and GM perspective I'd lean towards the first one personally for the following reasons:
1. Plot one is something unresolved from the first game that the players already know about and which they've already shown an interest in.
2. Plot one is also something that the original characters knew about and were unable to resolve, hence it could be portrayed as a stain on their honour that they did not deal with the situation and is therefore something that their children might see as a duty to complete.
While I like the idea of plot two I'd not go with it for this game for the following reasons:
1. Based on your description it sounds like too big a plot for the time frame
2. From an in game perspective it also doesn't (to me) sound achievable over such a small in game time frame given the Inukai have only been a vassal family for a few generations and in control of the valley for an even smaller period.
3. Only 2 of the characters are still Inukai, Stork and Tyler's characters were (I'm assuming) raised within the Mantis and Scorpion clans respectively so would their loyalties not lie with those Clans?
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D.T. Pints
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Post by D.T. Pints on Jan 15, 2014 8:13:06 GMT -8
Just because I love a good GM discussion...couldn't you combine the two ? Couldn't the PCs come into some sort of macguffin that would allow THEM ONLY, to defeat the big bad but in doing so the other clans must agree to let them have their new clan ? Like one of the swords or some such ? And possibly having a really intense struggle of ancestry wishes vs clan loyalty (I do hope the ghosts of their ancestors make an appearance in some shape or form...this is Rokugan after all and I think that allows for any possibility.) Couldn't the end of the big battle be that they are the ones that finally give enough honor and prestige to their ancestors that the new clan is allowed to form ? If I were a PC in that game I'd want to have a campaign where I got to leave that kind of legacy.
This was the only aspect of the first AP that made me grit my teeth a bit, and I know that Stu had brought it up for discussion...that being when in the game the PCs have to watch two NPCs fight...should it actually be rolled out or narrated. I really wanted the PCs to have some sort of culminating battle. But this also might be indicative of my play style being too locked into that trope of a FINAL BOSS BATTLE...
But perhaps the small fish in a big pond is what Stu was going for?
But I do agree with @whodo that the second plot might indeed be TOO convoluted for a shortish campaign.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2014 5:45:47 GMT -8
I really wanted the PCs to have some sort of culminating battle. But this also might be indicative of my play style being too locked into that trope of a FINAL BOSS BATTLE... You've played too much D&D / Pathfinder I personally like not having a big boss battle at the end, I'm not against them per se but generally I feel they're overused and often shoehorned in. For the Inukai game it made perfect sense to me that it would all come down to the brothers facing off, it was too personal for anything else and also fitted well with the samurai genre (from my limited understanding of it) in that the PCs were ultimately just tools of their lord.
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sbloyd
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Post by sbloyd on Jan 16, 2014 14:20:01 GMT -8
While I think plot one is more do-able from the perspective of the time frame you're looking at, plot two sounds like it fits the broad themes the players explored in Part One.
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bullgod
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Post by bullgod on Jan 16, 2014 15:45:36 GMT -8
For my money I'd want to see plot 2. It's a much better story arc, and maybe the big, bad evil guy ending is overdone.
However, the concerns over the length are valid. This arc feels like a the kind of thing you would see in 3 series of 10 episodes. I think you need some halfway point, a culmination of series 2 if you will, to give it some shape and give you all the chance to take stock, recharge you batteries.
So maybe something like: Season one: the family have gained the wealth in control of the valley.
Season two: over-throw the Oak clan in 10 sessions, gets them a name.
Play some one-shots/Moment of Truth or what ever,
Return in season three: to unite disparate vassal families under one banner. With this new-found influence perform some deed to which the major clans were blind. Final scene: back to the Emperor's for tea, medals and new clan-hood (or maybe stabbed in the back by the Scorpion).
-bullgod
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Post by SirGuido on Jan 16, 2014 18:32:24 GMT -8
I think plot 1 is best, though the shadowlands arena seems to be growing a bit stale. Could just be me. I ran something Shadowlands related, last L5R I played in was the same. I would like to see something non-Shadowlandsy.
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Post by maxinstuff on Jan 16, 2014 18:36:23 GMT -8
I think plot 1 is best, though the shadowlands arena seems to be growing a bit stale. Could just be me. I ran something Shadowlands related, last L5R I played in was the same. I would like to see something non-Shadowlandsy. But then we miss out on the taint jokes....
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Post by sbloyd on Jan 16, 2014 19:08:57 GMT -8
This is what I saw in my mind's eye when the Oak clan logo was brought up... Attachments:
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Post by sbloyd on Jan 16, 2014 19:09:19 GMT -8
Tres Cthulhu.
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Post by SirGuido on Jan 16, 2014 19:13:42 GMT -8
I think plot 1 is best, though the shadowlands arena seems to be growing a bit stale. Could just be me. I ran something Shadowlands related, last L5R I played in was the same. I would like to see something non-Shadowlandsy. But then we miss out on the taint jokes.... Oh... darn. I've played this game since I was 17. I've had no shortage of Taint jokes! The Taint, Shadowlands Crotch Rot, Crab HIV, Crabs, etc I've heard them all.
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Post by Stu Venable on Jan 17, 2014 12:39:52 GMT -8
This is what I saw in my mind's eye when the Oak clan logo was brought up... Mind if I use this?
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Post by SirGuido on Jan 17, 2014 13:15:14 GMT -8
You should make the Oak Clan an offshoot of the Matsu. you know... since Matsu means oak in japanese
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D.T. Pints
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Post by D.T. Pints on Jan 17, 2014 13:16:57 GMT -8
"The Tree is Strong mi' lord its roots grow deep."
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