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Post by bradscott on Mar 16, 2014 20:32:59 GMT -8
Hey all,
My group has just finished up one of current campaigns and are discussing options for the next game.
We have been playing GURPs (and are still playing GURPs for our other games) pretty much exclusively for the last couple of years across different settings and campaigns.
We are wondering if we should look at a different system for our next campaign so i'm just chasing a few suggestions.
We are thinking along the lines of a D&D-esq kind of game, where dungeon delves or monster of the weeks are the order of the day, one of the biggest reasons being we have too large a group for a single table but still want to play as a group so the plan is to have 2 GMs and split the party each sessions to go off complete a quest and then come back together.
Some of the considerations are;
Ability to die, the PCs should be able to die Not super complicated, Ability for PC to get better/level up Able to have 2-3 Combats in a 3-4 hour session
Some of the reasons GURPs ins't just the go-to game
Some desire to play something new/different Character Sheets can get long a complex with tons of skills and advantages that can be hard to keep track off Combats being too long and or complex
Some reasons we aren't going for D&D or pathfinder
D20 systems are not a bell curve and there are limited options to improve a PCs chance for success (compared to GURPs where you have things you can do to increase you chances to succeed like Aim/Evaluate, take extra time, use fatigue for extra effort etc) Worried combats just become roll to hit, subtract hit Points, repeat.
We have played a few games of FATE but have rules that out as we want a little more rules and more chance of character failure and death.
Some systems we are looking at (but haven't played) are Savage Worlds and Dungeon World, can anyone make any other recommendations for systems we should look at?
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Post by guitarspider on Mar 16, 2014 21:50:03 GMT -8
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Post by HourEleven on Mar 16, 2014 23:08:42 GMT -8
I'm not a huge fan of it, but Savage Worlds might be right up your alley. It's got more player option and strategy that SRD d20 while having less rules than Gurps - and that shit is super deadly. I recommend grabbing the free test drive and running a few skill contests and a combat or two: www.peginc.com/freebies/SWcore/TD06.pdf
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maxinstuff
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Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
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Post by maxinstuff on Mar 16, 2014 23:17:48 GMT -8
DCC RPG Ticks all your boxes - deadly, simple, dungeon crawling amazingness. GLORY AND GOLD WON BY SORCERY AND SWORD
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Post by squeatus on Mar 17, 2014 3:25:26 GMT -8
DCC RPG Ticks all your boxes - deadly, simple, dungeon crawling amazingness. I was just going to post this, but thought it wouldn't meet the "Well, but we need a bell curve" request. I'm just not sure where to get a "dungeon delve/slaughter at the zoo" atmosphere, with leveling, but still rules light, and deadly except through DCC. I think the spellcasting system embraces the swingy nature of linear rolling and actually makes it a strength. Lots of flavor, too. OSRIC/OD&D clones seem to seek only to preserve the 'mechanical simplicity' of their respective games. DCC RPG is more aimed at capturing the flavor than working for grognard posterity.
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HyveMynd
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Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
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Post by HyveMynd on Mar 17, 2014 4:00:58 GMT -8
Here are my thoughts. Ability to die. This can happen in any game, and is more about the tone of the story you're telling than the actual system. That being said, some systems are more or less lethal than others. Not super complicated. That's going to be a judgement call. Ability for PCs to improve. Again, that's going to be a judgement call and depends on whether you mean mechanically or fictionally. I suspect you mean mechanical advancement, in which case I can see why Fate wasn't to your tastes. Ability to have multiple combats in a session. This will depend a lot on the player's (including the GM's) familiarity with the system. But just like the first point, some systems do lend themselves to faster combats. If Fate isn't to your group's taste because it isn't mechanical enough, then you'll probably think the same thing about Dungeon World. Or any Powered by the Apocalypse game for that matter. Those games are "fiction first", which means the 'rules' often boil down to simply doing what makes sense. We are thinking along the lines of a D&D-esq kind of game, where dungeon delves or monster of the weeks are the order of the day, one of the biggest reasons being we have too large a group for a single table but still want to play as a group so the plan is to have 2 GMs and split the party each sessions to go off complete a quest and then come back together. Honestly, I don't think any system is designed to do that. If you intend to have the group split up, have an adventure (each run by a separate GM), and them come have together at the end of the session they you are limited in the types of games you can play. You're putting a time limit on how long each group's adventure can last, as everyone has to be done at the same time to come back together. This isn't good or bad, mind you. Just something to be taken into account as you've said. It sounds like Savage Worlds might be a good choice for you guys. I don't care for the system personally, but it's kinds of crunchy, but still simple, and has a lot of published material of different settings. I would also recommend Ubiquity, as it is my go to pulp system. There's much less published material for Ubiquity, it is incredibly easy to reskin however, though that turns many people off.
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Post by malifer on Mar 17, 2014 5:06:58 GMT -8
Savage Worlds! suck it HyveMynd In all seriousness if you like gurps but want something a little different that fits all your criteria I would be hard pressed to find a better option. Plus core rules $9.99, so even if it doesn't work out it cost less than a pizza. Things to keep in mind. 1. Read the Shaken rules and if you don't get it search this forum. 2. If youre planning on fantasy, then take jazzisblues advice and use all the rules. If you ignore cover, range, etc melee fighters will be completely outgunned by archers and mages.
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tomes
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Hello madness
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Post by tomes on Mar 17, 2014 8:29:59 GMT -8
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Post by rickno7 on Mar 17, 2014 19:48:27 GMT -8
Maybe look into 13th Age.
Its kind of schizophrenic on what it tries to accomplish(rules light, then complicates), but its combat aspects might be what your group wants. When things advance in 13th Age, damage and skills go WAY up. Instead of getting a dinky +1 on your weapon at level up, you get a full new 1D-whatever. That means when you're level 5, you'd obliterate a level 1 boss like it was nothing. It'll make you feel powerful.
Another thing is, your characters are basically bigger than the average NPC heroes. This is represented by each round they get more effective while the bad guys get worn down. Its called escalation dice. Now, enemies and particularly big bads, will have the ability to manipulate the escalation dice, so its not like the group just has to stay alive for a few rounds before wiping the floor with the enemy, but it is supposed to make sure combats don't drag on for entire play sessions. The time saving, "light" additions include things like monsters never roll for damage randomly, their attacks have a set amount of damage. Enemy skill sets and target numbers also fit on a 3 tiered scale that's easy to remember. All of this is to reduce the amount of time the npc's are taking control of the game mechanics, and putting all the dice rolling, number crunching, and action emphasis on the players.
13th Age has a lot of narratively focused rules loaded up front, and these are generally played up by its supporters, but they are NOT screwing around with the combat, combat is serious in 13th Age. Its not hippy faire at all, its some hackin' and slashin' stuff that's suitable for monster of the week dungeon crawls IMO.
Its just not a bell curve... if you're stuck on that, then stick with GURPs, because that's damn near GURPS' calling card. Dragon Age might work on a bell curve, and it has a cool "a la carte" stunt menu, but I don't know enough about it to really talk about how its combat works.
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Post by bradscott on Mar 17, 2014 20:18:12 GMT -8
Thanks for the suggestions guys
I think we are going to one shot a few things then make a decision
A number of the group are just keen to stick with GURPs because its what we know, (1 guy wants to not use GURPs because its what we know) I think we can Make GURPs work but since we would be "making" it work I'm super keen to try some different thins to see what happens.
Cheers Brad
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maxinstuff
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Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
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Post by maxinstuff on Mar 17, 2014 23:24:04 GMT -8
Thanks for the suggestions guys I think we are going to one shot a few things then make a decision A number of the group are just keen to stick with GURPs because its what we know, (1 guy wants to not use GURPs because its what we know) I think we can Make GURPs work but since we would be "making" it work I'm super keen to try some different thins to see what happens. Cheers Brad Why not pick up the dungeon fantasy line?
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Post by Kainguru on Mar 19, 2014 3:37:41 GMT -8
D20 isn't strictly linear and can be dialled up or down by altering the TN and the modifiers. eg: a TN of 15 ISN'T a flat 5% it's a 75% chance of failure reduced or increased by 5% for each bonus or penalty increment. The die may be linear but the use of TN's and modifiers changes that - there is only a flat 10% for a critical fail/success (5% each) only if you use that option with natural 1's and 20's. But this probability sits outside of the usual probability generated by use of TN's with modifiers as success or failure is independent of TN or modifiers. Sorry to rant but the misrepresentation of d20 probability as strictly linear really annoys me. The dice are linear the mechanic isn't. Aaron
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Post by bradscott on Mar 20, 2014 18:31:42 GMT -8
That is actually what I meant when I said Linear, if we adjust our target number up or down by 1 it always changes the probability by 5%
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Post by Arcona on Mar 24, 2014 5:09:13 GMT -8
Warhammer Fantasy RPG 2nd edition is your game.
Ability to die, the PCs should be able to die
Check! Oh yes, PCs die. Eventually you run out of your 1-2-3 fate points and you do die. Meanwhile you get mutilated.
Not super complicated,
Check! Basic d100 system. Not complicated, easy to grasp. PCs get a bunch of skills with a fixed benefit (+1 dmg, +10 on X skill) but even an experienced character wont have 2 pages of those but rather a paragraph or two.
Ability for PC to get better/level up
Check! You gain XP that help buy Characteristics (more wounds, better strength etc.) or skills. When you have bought all the upgrades available for your Career then you can try collecting what is needed to advance in another career.
Able to have 2-3 Combats in a 3-4 hour session
Frankly speaking along with your 'ability to die' I would say that doing 2-3 combats would mean you end up having far too many new PCs as people die in WHFRPG. So 2-3 combats is for sure doable time wise but the characters will suffer for being trigget happy slaughter monkeys.
Overall though WHFRPG has monsters aplenty for you and your group to wade through... be it Orks, Skaven, Undead, simple old Brigands & Barbarians or the ever present Chaos Hordes you get plenty of opportunities.
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D.T. Pints
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Post by D.T. Pints on Mar 24, 2014 8:39:16 GMT -8
Yay! Leave it to those on THAT side of the pond to wave the Warhammer Flag. While Dungeon Crawl Classics is a great old school game, I just fucking love the gritty, armor chafing, wound infected, insanity inducing, barely staggering away from what was supposed to be a routine fight of warhammer. Love that shit. (Apparently I'm in a salty, cursing mood this morning.)
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