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Post by kaitoujuliet on Mar 9, 2015 7:24:59 GMT -8
We had some discussion a while ago about different types of GMs, including those who get their energy from "performing" for the group. I definitely feel that this description fits me, and I've got a problem with my group.
Over the past few years, most of my group have become more and more attached to their various electronics, to the point where if I go over to the house where we usually gather, at any given time three will have laptops open and others will be on tablets/smartphones. This includes times when we're supposed to be hanging out, chatting, watching movies, or whatever. I have sat next to them, and I know they're constantly reading e-mail, looking at message boards, playing Facebook games, IM'ing with other people, and the like. Even during games, if we're playing in the living room, which is any time we don't have a battlemap and minis. There are maybe two out of six players who are willing to put the devices away without being asked. During our last game, our least-engaged player was on her tablet to the degree that she actually zoned out of what was going on and had to be poked when the GM mentioned something calculated to appeal to her character. The others at least can still follow the game while doing their other things.
But here's the rub: facing all these people across their gadgets, knowing that their brains are partly elsewhere, completely saps my energy for GMing. I just feel discouraged, like "Why bother? They've got enough to entertain them without my input." It makes me feel like I've failed any time the least-engaged player tunes me out (or falls asleep at the table, sigh) ... or really, any time one of them is focusing more on the device than on the game at hand. I'm due to restart my Star Wars game in April, and I'm kind of dreading it for this reason. Or at least, dreading that part of the experience.
So ... does anyone have any advice, or at least sympathy? (I love sympathy.) Is banning electronics at the table the only solution? The laptops probably wouldn't be coming to the table, but the tablets/smartphones could. Or conversely, is "get over it, electronics are here to stay" the only answer, and if so, do you have any suggestions for a performer GM to keep her energy up when she knows her "audience" isn't really with her? I've also considered suggesting that we play in a different location, but I don't think that will work every week.
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Mar 9, 2015 7:54:56 GMT -8
So ... does anyone have any advice, or at least sympathy? I'll do better than that and empathize, kaitoujuliet. It does not sound to me like an electronics problem but it does sound to me like a problem of respect. You're not getting it and, in fact, getting disrespected. Now I get onto my usual soapbox, which people ignore and down vote. I will spare your topic this dehumanization. I do understand how you feel though, and I guess you know that. I no longer play RPGs - though I may try again one last time after I return home - and I seldom feel the urge to participate in the midst of such a group. Like Stu mentioned in a recent Podcast (14.13 or 14.12) sometimes it is not the GM at fault. Sometimes it is the players. He mentioned a whole table of players that did not match his style of play during that episode. Always worth listening too.
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Post by weaselcreature on Mar 9, 2015 8:08:53 GMT -8
This is definitely something to have a grown up conversation about. Perhaps after your next session, before everyone leaves, you ask: "OK...how's the game going for everyone?" That opens the forum for them first, and after any input they have, you express your concerns; let them know it bothers you and ask if they can curtail it especially when their character is in the scene. I wouldn't call out the worst offender by name or anything (no reason to be publicly more confrontation: some people might go into defensive mode being called out).
If they continue, then call them on it during the game ("Hey, Drizz't Jr...I just asked what your Defense is again! Put away the phone!"), and say "see...this is exactly why I expressed my concerns before."
As a GM, I don't mind when people pull out their phones and such if the character isn't in the scene (or if it's going to take awhile to get to them in combat...one of our groups has 7 PCs), as long as they're quick to react and put it down when they're up.
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Post by Kainguru on Mar 9, 2015 8:12:40 GMT -8
Embrace the change: that's what I did. Use those electronics to your advantage, as part of the game. Music/multimedia is one example - nothing quite grabs the attention when suddenly there are 'actually drums playing' when there are 'drums to be heard'. Before now I've mocked up crude interactive 3D models of areas to give the players something to visualise - along with a description: these models require either a laptop or tablet to preview. As both player and GM private messaging has been more subtle, and effective, than 'passing a note'. Further to that use the communications nature of these devices to 'get their attention' thru a device of your own. As a side note nothing makes someone shut down their wifi quicker than letting them know you can access their photos folder from your laptop across your home network (if that's gobbledegook just lie and say you can). Banning some devices is ok BUT REAL LIFE trumps games and real life concerns can necessitate some of us having a mobile etc on 24/7 (even in movie theatre it gets switched to silent 'because - work') Aaron
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Post by heavymetaljess on Mar 9, 2015 8:29:21 GMT -8
kaitoujuliet: I start my campaigns off with, "Please don't use electronics unless you are using them for your books or are responding to important OOC issues. This is to respect other players and to let me know you're engaged in the story." I am also a performer and it hurt my feelings that I had to give up on my well crafted location and NPC descriptions because my players weren't paying attention when I would provide them. Last night, two of my players were on their phones, completely ignoring the game so I have tons of sympathy. It made me feel like my "performance" was bad. So, today, I am following weaselcreature and the show's frequent advise to have detailed follow up with my players. The only real difference in my case is that I'm doing it via email to encourage honest responses. Sometimes people aren't honest in front of a group so you have to decide which approach works better for your players. I also intend to pull a player aside to specifically address his poor table behavior, namely because it is alienating other players... the ones that zoned out into phone land.
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
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Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Mar 10, 2015 7:36:05 GMT -8
What that lich said.
I have a SEVEN player (yikes) Star Wars: Edge of the Empire game going now. I thought it might be a good idea to have a large starting player pool to deal with some not being able to attend. So far its just been the seven...which thankfully has been quite fun. The system for Star Wars is really quick and because there's just symbols not concrete numbers the interpretation of the dice is very much group effort. So everyone so far has been staying focused. But I would like to include more secret messages via text to increase the feel of the science fiction style world. I've encouraged everyone to get droid text alerts and such so that when I want to send messages there are all these lovely burrs, whistles and clicks pinging around the table. But, this is done through a separate app not their main text source. This may eventually blow up in my face like a thermodetonator.
Finally, we created a Facebook group. With a group of mostly new players, four women and three men they expressed not much interest in creating an obsidian portal page or a separate forum. The FB page has been FAR more successful of a forum to encourage in game/ooc discussion than any of my previous efforts.
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Post by weaselcreature on Mar 10, 2015 8:02:44 GMT -8
We've got an Edge of the Empire game going as well. Some people are able to pick up the dice calculations/negations quick and easy, but for some it's a touch slower. They do, however, have an app for it, and everyone picked it up. You choose the dice you want (you can even have presets for your commonly used ones ), roll them, and it does all the negating and leaves you with whats left. There's even sound effects (with a few themes to choose from). It's sped up the dice aspect for the slower-calculating folks a lot.
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Post by kaitoujuliet on Mar 10, 2015 10:45:06 GMT -8
I'm actually running Saga Edition, not FFG. So there's no app...which may be a good thing in my case.
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Post by Forresst on Mar 10, 2015 22:06:31 GMT -8
I figure you have a right to determine the rules you want at your table. So if you want people to leave the electronics at the door, say so. Granted, your players might object but you do have that right.
Have you explained to these people how you feel about their distractions? If you've made your stance clear and they refuse to pay attention, then that becomes a question of disrespect. If you're being disrespected while you put yourself out and work hard to entertain your players... well, I'd personally tell them to go entertain themselves. But I'm a big jerk and I don't care how long I've been playing with a person, if I'm being disrespected, I walk off.
If you want to give them a reason to get into the electronics for your game, you could have a wiki, or a fake news, or all sorts of stuff!
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Post by ayslyn on Mar 11, 2015 8:43:32 GMT -8
A lot is, obviously, contingent on what the devices are being used for. For instance, I have gone paperless at the table, keeping all my books and character sheets on a tablet. Take away my tablet and I can't really play for a bit...
Plus, what looks like distraction could be them trying to enhance the session. I had one combat where my nemesis was kicking the tar out of me, only to have me come back miraculously at the end to defeat her. So, I quickly dug up the theme to Rocky on my tablet and started playing it during the comeback and end of the fight.
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Post by guitarspider on Mar 11, 2015 9:17:20 GMT -8
Doesn't sound like they're using electronics to enhance the game. I'd ask them stop it, even if they were, because if it's sapping your energy as a GM the potential upsides don't make up for it.
Technology can be a great tool, but the dose makes the poison. Too much of a good thing is still too much.
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tomes
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Post by tomes on Mar 11, 2015 12:09:29 GMT -8
Hmm.. I feel like in some way I'm a little lucky in this regard. Maybe cause it's LA and people drive through shitty traffic to get here, or maybe it's cause most of us are just over the border of 40 years, we feel like once we're here, we WANT to game.
But we do have the one player who's the youngest of us (mid 20's) and she is the one who is the most likely to fall into the media trap. Some days it's more than others, but she's mostly with us. And there was another player I used to have the same age who'd do the same.
Given that it's usually the younger in the crowd (my pre-judgment showing), maybe making it a fun game. Depending on severity, it could be 1. if you miss your queues for action, or 2. if you are even CAUGHT with looking at your phone, give them a Phone modifier -1 for all actions for the next few minutes. Or you could have them take shots... normally once someone gets pretty wasted they aren't checking their phone as much (then again they may not be playing as much).
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Post by kaitoujuliet on Mar 11, 2015 12:15:07 GMT -8
A lot is, obviously, contingent on what the devices are being used for. As I said above, they are checking e-mail and message boards, IM'ing, and playing Facebook games. At least one player prefers to keep her character sheet on her tablet, but she's also the one most likely to get absorbed in her tablet and lose the thread of the game. (She also rolls dice on her tablet, and it generally takes her about three times as long as it would to roll physical dice.)
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Post by ayslyn on Mar 11, 2015 13:32:15 GMT -8
Yeah, sorry. My advice was meant to be much more general in its audience. ^.^
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Post by fray on Mar 11, 2015 21:51:58 GMT -8
this is done through a separate app not their main text source. What app is it? I'm thinking that they are here to stay. I also agree with the younger players being more often engrossed in their devices. I would like to not have them at the table and there are times when I would like to incorporate them into the game. I think it would be tough to incorporate tech into the game because it takes time to type those texts and also the GM would be checking their own device so much that it would be a distraction. I am looking forward to the day where tech enhances our gaming but it isn't there yet.
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