|
Post by yojimbohawkins on Jan 14, 2018 1:33:03 GMT -8
I listened to Campaign for a bit, and tried Never Tell Me The Pods (don’t, it’s not good), but when Kat started talking about the story_she_wanted to tell, a big red flag went up for me. Add to that her Mary Sue DMPC, her really quite blatant railroading, her Mary Sue antagonist who can’t be harmed and the all-powerful Darth Maul, I mean, Tamlin, and it got a bit too much. It was a bit of a shame, really, because it started really well, and Kat just rolled with whatever the guys threw at her. I was impressed with her GMing style in the beginning, but she started exhibiting all those things we just don’t want in a GM, and it got too jarring for me. You make some good points; I attribute that to the format they are following. They are improvisational comedians putting on a performance. Maybe this is acceptable to them on some sort of larger structure from which they hang their performance? It just doesn’t feel that way, unfortunately. James, JPC and Johnny are all professional comedians and improvisers, which really comes through in their characterisations. To be fair to Kat, it must be like herding, well, cats. I appreciate this may probably just my view of GMing, but when Bacta tried to shoot Ava, and Kat immediately said that Ava pulled her lightsaber and deflected the shot without even allowing James a die roll, that signalled a GM fail to me. Likewise the way Tryst’s sister turned up out of the blue to stop him destroying the Wild Karrde, which Kat even said on air that she couldn’t allow JPC to do because it’s a ‘real’ ship in the canon. The boys did get around that by giving Kat no choice, but that’s still not good GMing. Every time her DMPC argues with the party about the best course of action and tries to order them about is a touch uncomfortable as well. With the best will in the world, it sounds like the GM trying to tell the party what to do, funny voices aside. One Shot is less of an issue for me; it’s a good window in lots of different systems for me, which I appreciate.
|
|
|
Post by ayslyn on Jan 14, 2018 6:00:36 GMT -8
Real Men, Real Roleplayers, Loonies, MunchkinsAnd yer just a kid, tappy. ^.^ Also, give Shadowrun 5e a look. The layout and editing is painful, but they do address your Wired World issue. They shook things up at the end of 4e, and made the decker of 4e a thing of the past. No more can you hide across the city and remotely hack into Aztechnology's HQ. Decker's are very much back to the need to physically plug into the system they want to infiltrate. Oh come on, I turn 40 this year. Which also means that I have known Stu and Stork almost half my life. Ah, to be 40 again....
|
|
d47
Journeyman Douchebag
RPG of Choice: Metagaming Melee
Posts: 194
|
Post by d47 on Jan 14, 2018 13:36:42 GMT -8
Regarding Campaign, I don't judge the show like a normal RPG AP.
Sometimes the PC players play NPCs and converse with the other players, clearly something you would not do in an ordinary RPG situation. It's sketch comedy in a Star Wars setting with a loose RPG structure. Not to everyone's taste, but I usually enjoy it.
|
|
|
Post by yojimbohawkins on Jan 15, 2018 1:20:52 GMT -8
Regarding Campaign, I don't judge the show like a normal RPG AP. Sometimes the PC players play NPCs and converse with the other players, clearly something you would not do in an ordinary RPG situation. It's sketch comedy in a Star Wars setting with a loose RPG structure. Not to everyone's taste, but I usually enjoy it. Fair enough. They clearly treat it as an RPG campaign though; Kat's aim was to try and run a Star Wars long-form campaign instead of the usual one-shots, but I just can't get onboard with a GM who wants to put her story in her version of Star Wars before the characters' agency. I suspect if I hadn't listen to Never Tell the Pods, I probably wouldn't have such a downer on it, but the gang seem to have such an exclusive view of Star wars and how it should be (under the banner of inclusivity) that I can't see past that, and that's my loss, I guess.
|
|
|
Post by joecrak on Jan 16, 2018 17:47:35 GMT -8
It was fecking rad to have tappy back on the show. I absolutely love how enthusiastic all the host are about their favorite games, and how the other hosts are enthusiastic about that enthusiasm. Apart from good natured ribbing, no one pisses on anyone's pizza. It's great. I'm listening to the episode for a second time (sound only), and I lost my shit at Stu again. You mean that part where Stu was a walking talking Internet? "I don't like this thing despite not knowing all the details of the thing I don't like!" I jest because I love. But sure, you didn't like High School. But would you like playing a game where you have super powers in high school? Because that's basically MonsterHearts. You're just a petty jerk face instead of a super hero. So, you know, a teenager. I recall saying what I have always said about how system flavors the game, and therefore all systems have merit for the genre they are intended. Apoc World fits my playstyle as a GM. I like to do prep and see what happens... and the character sheets are holding you down, man. it is AH-MAZING to expiriance collaberative storyteling with awesome folks, rather than run them down your "chose your own adventure" style train track. Also, there are a LOT of really shitty hacks for apoc world. That is why I say Apoc world rather than the is "PbtA" bullshit. I honestly don't care for dungeon world. I would rather play 5th ed D&D, because the flavors of the gene and system clash. I still don't beleive in universal systems... Apoc world and the good hacks of it, like Monster hearts are very elegant systems designed to have very nebulous games. Monster of the week is also a good episodic nebulous game, because you make a monster and then push whee the characters are weak, that all. You don't write "encounters" and you don't decide on a puzzle to sovle. I like MotW less than Monsterhearts by a long shot, but it is still good fun. I would never run a PbtA traveller gamer. Hard sci-fi is not a good genre for that system. I tried for a sec and it didn't really jive. Much like how I am not a fan of Savage worlds for EVERYTHING, I am not a fan of "PbtA" for everything. but Apoc world is fucking badass and I love running it. Fight me. I agree with many of these points Sir. Dungeon World suffers because it was written by two different people with different opinions on what the system should do. MonsterHearts is way more fun for me than MotW. Though, I think PbtA can do Hard Sci-Fi. I feel like The Expanse is a good basis for a hack, but it really depends on the theme you are aiming for with the game you're trying to make. Just saying Hard Sci-Fi Apoc World isn't really enough. As for Cyberpunk, so far my fave CyberPunk game is The Veil, it's great. It's all about feelings, and the setting creation stuff was a blast to go through. The character I played was an Empath that would illegally sell feelings for others like a drug dealer. And as for Stu's joke about making a PbtA hack of Savage Worlds. I give you a firm Marge Simpson growl of disapproval.
|
|
HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
|
Post by HyveMynd on Jan 16, 2018 21:55:22 GMT -8
You mean that part where Stu was a walking talking Internet? "I don't like this thing despite not knowing all the details of the thing I don't like!" I jest because I love. But sure, you didn't like High School. But would you like playing a game where you have super powers in high school? Because that's basically MonsterHearts. You're just a petty jerk face instead of a superhero. So, you know, a teenager. As anyone who frequents the forum (or who follows me on Twitter) knows, I push Monsterhearts real hard. Probably a bit too hard, honestly. I understand not wanting to play a petty, selfish teeager. I understand not wanting to "relive" high school. I understand not wanting to play a game that has sex and sexuality as a central theme. As discussed at length in another thread, you're being a massive douchebag if you don't accept that most people (adults, at least) have had enough life experience to know what they like and what they don't like. If you make an elevator pitch to someone and they say, "Yeah, no. That doesn't sound like it's for me." then the respectful thing to do is say "That's cool." and leave it alone. They know what they're into better than you do, and to keep pushing the issue is downright rude. (BTW, I'm not directing any of this at you joecrak, I'm just speaking generally here.) All that being said, I do wish I could get everyone to read the book and play at least one session of Monsterhearts. I think it is an absolutely fantastic example of how a game can use mechanics to encourage specific player actions and emulate a specific genre. I think I literally went like this after reading the book for the first time: I know it won't happen, but there's still a little part of my brain that thinks other people will have the same reaction if I can just get to them to try the game.
|
|
|
HJRP2101
Jan 17, 2018 4:15:37 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by joecrak on Jan 17, 2018 4:15:37 GMT -8
You mean that part where Stu was a walking talking Internet? "I don't like this thing despite not knowing all the details of the thing I don't like!" I jest because I love. But sure, you didn't like High School. But would you like playing a game where you have super powers in high school? Because that's basically MonsterHearts. You're just a petty jerk face instead of a superhero. So, you know, a teenager. As anyone who frequents the forum (or who follows me on Twitter) knows, I push Monsterhearts real hard. Probably a bit too hard, honestly. I understand not wanting to play a petty, selfish teeager. I understand not wanting to "relive" high school. I understand not wanting to play a game that has sex and sexuality as a central theme. As discussed at length in another thread, you're being a massive douchebag if you don't accept that most people (adults, at least) have had enough life experience to know what they like and what they don't like. If you make an elevator pitch to someone and they say, "Yeah, no. That doesn't sound like it's for me." then the respectful thing to do is say "That's cool." and leave it alone. They know what they're into better than you do, and to keep pushing the issue is downright rude. (BTW, I'm not directing any of this at you joecrak, I'm just speaking generally here.) All that being said, I do wish I could get everyone to read the book and play at least one session of Monsterhearts. I think it is an absolutely fantastic example of how a game can use mechanics to encourage specific player actions and emulate a specific genre. I think I literally went like this after reading the book for the first time: I know it won't happen, but there's still a little part of my brain that thinks other people will have the same reaction if I can just get to them to try the game. Oh I get it Hyve, and I agree. But I used to be Stu, I made the same faces, and said the same things, I felt the same way. Then I played it and realized I was just being a curmudgeon. Not everyone will feel the same. I long for the day I see MonsterHearts pop up on the feed, but I'm not holding my breath.
|
|
|
Post by ayslyn on Jan 17, 2018 5:29:59 GMT -8
I long for the day I see MonsterHearts pop up on the feed, but I'm not holding my breath. 's probably a good idea, as I suspect that would be a problem.... But IIRC they announced a likely Monsterhearts AP in this very episode....
|
|
|
HJRP2101
Jan 17, 2018 6:18:42 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by ericfromnj on Jan 17, 2018 6:18:42 GMT -8
You PbtA guys have got to calm down a bit.
Some people just know that they won’t be into Monsterhearts and I don’t think by just trying they are going to be converted.
Hell. It took 3 different PbtA games just to get me to the point where I went “Ok I see the potential for this system here”. And I still love Savage Worlds thank you very much.
Just different strokes you know?
|
|
|
Post by yojimbohawkins on Jan 17, 2018 8:09:34 GMT -8
Personally, I can't think of anything worse than a game of Monsterhearts or anything with the words 'World of Darkness' in them. I haven't played them, haven't even looked at them, and have no desire too. It all feels a bit too "AnnRiceStephanieMeyerLaurelKHamiltonoooovampiresaresoooooocoooooool" for me. I appreciate that they probably aren't, I appreciate that if I haven't read or played them I can't really speak to them, but they are just not my bag. I wasn't really enamoured with PbtA until I heard some AP's of Spirit of 77. I picked up the book and that was the game that brought me into the PbtA fold. Masks is great too (but I'm a big fan of Young Justice and it really hits that spot). So I do keep an eye out for new PbtA hacks, but I'm never going to buy or play Monsterhearts or World of Darkness anything. But that's just me.
|
|
|
Post by Stu Venable on Jan 17, 2018 8:30:50 GMT -8
Real Men, Real Roleplayers, Loonies, MunchkinsAnd yer just a kid, tappy. ^.^ Also, give Shadowrun 5e a look. The layout and editing is painful, but they do address your Wired World issue. They shook things up at the end of 4e, and made the decker of 4e a thing of the past. No more can you hide across the city and remotely hack into Aztechnology's HQ. Decker's are very much back to the need to physically plug into the system they want to infiltrate. Oh come on, I turn 40 this year. Which also means that I have known Stu and Stork almost half my life. I have looked at 5e, and while I like the return of the combat decker and the integration of AR etc, I still really like the old game where the highest degree of personal phone technology you have is an answering machine. There is a grittiness to the old game that I like, a feeling that you don't have the best billion dollar tech availible, and everyone else does. There is no cloud computing, there are no easy answers. Among the many cyberpunk themes for me is "Nothing is for free" and "No one shares". Income disparity is insane, and most people who have cyberware have it because they signed their life away to someone else. When you choose resources high resources, you never actually had a million dollars and purchased cyberware, you just had a million dollars worth of cyberware put in by other people for a specific reason. You made a deal with the devil for a shot at something better than soycafe and hardtack. I absolutely agree that 5th edition is better than 4th, but 2nd edition isn't so bad that I would choose another setting over it because of the mechanics. You've turned into a grognard!
|
|
tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
Posts: 1,438
Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
|
Post by tomes on Jan 17, 2018 9:29:02 GMT -8
So, speaking of strong opinions on PbtA, have you played any of the cyberpunk-esque PbtA games? Specifically thinking of The Sprawl (very mission based) and The Veil (more about exploring the themes and feels).
|
|
|
Post by ayslyn on Jan 17, 2018 10:01:55 GMT -8
Personally, I can't think of anything worse than a game of Monsterhearts or anything with the words 'World of Darkness' in them. I haven't played them, haven't even looked at them, and have no desire too. It all feels a bit too "AnnRiceStephanieMeyerLaurelKHamiltonoooovampiresaresoooooocoooooool" for me. I appreciate that they probably aren't, I appreciate that if I haven't read or played them I can't really speak to them, but they are just not my bag. No, you're pretty much right, in different ways. WoD Vampire definitely drew some inspiration from Rice, and Monsterhearts is absolutely inspired directly from Meyer and a little from Hamilton.
|
|
HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
|
Post by HyveMynd on Jan 17, 2018 18:22:42 GMT -8
You PbtA guys have got to calm down a bit. Well. All I have to say to that is Some people just know that they won’t be into Monsterhearts and I don’t think by just trying they are going to be converted. Hell. It took 3 different PbtA games just to get me to the point where I went “Ok I see the potential for this system here”. And I still love Savage Worlds thank you very much. Just different strokes you know? Oh absolutely. I'm not trying to convert people over to PbtA, so perhaps phrased things poorly. I was just using Monsterhearts as an example of a game I feel does a fantastic job of using mechanics to reinforce theme and playstyle. I wasn't really enamoured with PbtA until I heard some AP's of Spirit of 77. I picked up the book and that was the game that brought me into the PbtA fold. Masks is great too (but I'm a big fan of Young Justice and it really hits that spot). So I do keep an eye out for new PbtA hacks, but I'm never going to buy or play Monsterhearts or World of Darkness anything. But that's just me. MASKS is another example of a game I feel does a good job of marrying theme and mechanics. The whole "shifting labels" thing because your character is a teenager and how people perceive them affects their sense of self is fantastic. As are the emotional conditions. Not only does making villains Angry, Guilty, or Scared instead of dealing damage reinforce the idea that your young heroes aren't killers, it also signposts that the stories you'll tell with this game care about how your protagonists feel. Personally, I can't think of anything worse than a game of Monsterhearts or anything with the words 'World of Darkness' in them. I haven't played them, haven't even looked at them, and have no desire too. It all feels a bit too "AnnRiceStephanieMeyerLaurelKHamiltonoooovampiresaresoooooocoooooool" for me. I appreciate that they probably aren't, I appreciate that if I haven't read or played them I can't really speak to them, but they are just not my bag. No, you're pretty much right, in different ways. WoD Vampire definitely drew some inspiration from Rice, and Monsterhearts is absolutely inspired directly from Meyer and a little from Hamilton. Oh absolutely. As I said earlier, if someone says "Yeah, no. I have no desire to play that game." me telling them they are wrong is a real dick move.
|
|
|
Post by Monkeyfun Dave on Jan 17, 2018 18:47:15 GMT -8
I wasn't really enamoured with PbtA until I heard some AP's of Spirit of 77. I picked up the book and that was the game that brought me into the PbtA fold. But that's just me. AND GOD BLESS YOU FOR IT!
|
|