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Post by ericfromnj on Feb 11, 2018 15:56:10 GMT -8
I remember an rpg called Fantasy Wargaming that was harsh with gender roles. We tended to ignore them. Fantasy Wargaming was absolutely dreadful I that regard. It didn’t even apply the sexism consistently. It really felt like a bunch of late teen boys who’d never known a girl writing their own game. Which of course it was. I didn't know you were being serious until I just looked up the history of the game. truth be told my 13yo self was more fascinated with attack tables with hit locations and mass combat rules than anything else... and i remember your attributed being modified by your zodiac sign.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 17:23:45 GMT -8
Having survived the early years of gaming, yeah, there was a lot of trying to shoehorn realism into a fantasy game. We kind of scoff at it now, but you have to remember alot of rpgs of the day seemed to tend towards simulationist play, I think coming from wargames that were re-rigged to be something they weren't designed to.
And I'd agree that there was probably very minimal consistancy as various groups handwaved things like stat requirements/limits, and definitely inititive. Init was terrible, and then factoring in weapon speed and then the modifiers against certain armors by certain weapons.
It was, as they say, 'of a time'. I know that a lot of improvements have been made in gaming, but when someone wants to play old systems for more than curiosity, I do ask myself what they're looking for instead of starting a system war. And usually it's been my experience that people like the nostalgia for days where you could game for eight or more hours a session.
YMMV
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Feb 11, 2018 23:34:45 GMT -8
Fantasy Wargaming was absolutely dreadful I that regard. It didn’t even apply the sexism consistently. It really felt like a bunch of late teen boys who’d never known a girl writing their own game. Which of course it was. I didn't know you were being serious until I just looked up the history of the game. truth be told my 13yo self was more fascinated with attack tables with hit locations and mass combat rules than anything else... and i remember your attributed being modified by your zodiac sign. To be honest, I wasn’t being that serious (except with regards to the inconsistent sexism). All I actually know about it was that it was written by a group of clever students from Cambridge (or Oxford? no ... not Oxford, otherwise I would know more of them). They possibly did know girls.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Feb 11, 2018 23:40:57 GMT -8
EDIT: And I want to clarify, fredrix, that I'm not ranting at you. Just ranting in general. Don’t worry, I didn’t think you were ranting at me. and I entirely agree that there’s little for female characters to do in Pendragon. (Except the most important thing of course - having babies )
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Post by Kainguru on Feb 12, 2018 3:16:10 GMT -8
Having survived the early years of gaming, yeah, there was a lot of trying to shoehorn realism into a fantasy game. We kind of scoff at it now, but you have to remember alot of rpgs of the day seemed to tend towards simulationist play, I think coming from wargames that were re-rigged to be something they weren't designed to. And I'd agree that there was probably very minimal consistancy as various groups handwaved things like stat requirements/limits, and definitely inititive. Init was terrible, and then factoring in weapon speed and then the modifiers against certain armors by certain weapons. It was, as they say, 'of a time'. I know that a lot of improvements have been made in gaming, but when someone wants to play old systems for more than curiosity, I do ask myself what they're looking for instead of starting a system war. And usually it's been my experience that people like the nostalgia for days where you could game for eight or more hours a session. YMMV Sometimes it’s less nostalgia and more to do with power curves - power fantasy’s aren’t the default assumption for every player ( and I believe it is disingenuous to make the assumption that every player is indulging a ‘power fantasy’). 5e has certainly scaled it back a good bit to really sell it they should make more explicit the dials needed to tweak the power curve back to pre-3.x days. Converting, level for level, 1e and 2e characters to 5e still produces characters that are more akin to 12th and 14th level characters, in terms of efficacy, were the conversion done the other way. Rather, I should say, that is at least how it ‘feels’. Aaron
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Post by chronovore on Feb 12, 2018 5:30:38 GMT -8
They talked about it a bit in the podcast. I know just enough about FATAL to know that I don't want to know any more about it... Yeah, that's a reasonable response. Some people will try the "how do you know you don't like it if you haven't TRIED it?" approach, to which the proper response is, "I've never stabbed myself in the abdomen, but I'm pretty sure I'm OK with not trying it."
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Post by Kainguru on Feb 12, 2018 5:32:24 GMT -8
They talked about it a bit in the podcast. I know just enough about FATAL to know that I don't want to know any more about it... Yeah, that's a reasonable response. Some people will try the "how do you know you don't like it if you haven't TRIED it?" approach, to which the proper response is, "I've never stabbed myself in the abdomen, but I'm pretty sure I'm OK with not trying it." I prefer ‘I don’t need to eat dogshit to know I don’t want to’ Aaron
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Post by ayslyn on Feb 12, 2018 5:34:46 GMT -8
Well, to be fair, there IS a reasonable level of “Don’t Judge It Until You’ve Tried It”.
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Post by joecrak on Feb 12, 2018 7:27:57 GMT -8
All I know is that this topic rings strikingly close to a personal passion of mine, intergender wrestling, and just like that I bet it's mostly men that created all these crap rules early in the days, or complaining about 'historical accuracy'.
The complaint of intergender wrestling being it's not believable, or it promotes domestic violence, and both are pretty ridiculous. Especially when you're watching Cajun hillbillies use swamp magic to try and win matches.
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Post by Kainguru on Feb 12, 2018 7:46:25 GMT -8
Fortunately the mysteries of American Wrestling have passed me by - the closest I’m familiar with is the old British Wrestling broadcast in the 70’s : ‘live from Oldham’ ( though it wasn’t cause we were watching months later in B&W in NZ and Oz.). Aaron
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Feb 12, 2018 9:41:46 GMT -8
Fortunately the mysteries of American Wrestling have passed me by - the closest I’m familiar with is the old British Wrestling broadcast in the 70’s : ‘live from Oldham’ ( though it wasn’t cause we were watching months later in B&W in NZ and Oz.). Aaron Did you see the fabulous and long awaited Big Daddy vs Giant Haystacks grudge match, which decide once and for all, which one of them was better?
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Post by Kainguru on Feb 12, 2018 10:44:35 GMT -8
Fortunately the mysteries of American Wrestling have passed me by - the closest I’m familiar with is the old British Wrestling broadcast in the 70’s : ‘live from Oldham’ ( though it wasn’t cause we were watching months later in B&W in NZ and Oz.). Aaron Did you see the fabulous and long awaited Big Daddy vs Giant Haystacks grudge match, which decide once and for all, which one of them was better? I missed that. But I do remember, in the day, Buster Comic ran a strip about a lad who wanted to be a wrestler and being ‘trained’ karate kid style by a Big Daddy analogue. Note this was years before the karate kid movies - part of his ‘training’ involved a ‘healthy’ fish, egg and chips dinner full of those extra carbohydrates to help him gain weight on the road to wrestling fitness (as well being admonished for eating an unsatisfactory ‘continental breakfast’ when only a proper ‘full English’ would do). Buster comic, The Dandy, Beano, fuck Marvel and DC they were proper comics (grown up me loves me some ‘Viz’ sometimes). Aaron
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Post by joecrak on Feb 12, 2018 12:46:27 GMT -8
Fortunately the mysteries of Wrestling have passed me by Fixed that for you. It's not just an American thing, it's world wide bay bay!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 16:29:26 GMT -8
Speakin' of the wrasslin', as opposed to sports entertainment, I've learned a lot by listening to Jim Cornette's podcast. And strangely enough, I find a lot of insight about the psychology of wrestling, of booking, of pacing, of writing people in or out, can be applicable to gaming. Of course, being near Knoxville doesn't hurt for learning more of this stuff that was just slightly before my time. And at least Kane's running for county mayor here which is bonkers...
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Post by chronovore on Feb 13, 2018 3:55:30 GMT -8
Speakin' of the wrasslin', as opposed to sports entertainment, I've learned a lot by listening to Jim Cornette's podcast. And strangely enough, I find a lot of insight about the psychology of wrestling, of booking, of pacing, of writing people in or out, can be applicable to gaming. Of course, being near Knoxville doesn't hurt for learning more of this stuff that was just slightly before my time. And at least Kane's running for county mayor here which is bonkers... We're living in a really weird timeline. Or possibly a stub.
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