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Post by Stu Venable on Mar 21, 2018 21:48:44 GMT -8
Every few weeks, I review the number of downloads of both the Friday podcast and the Actual Play feed.
These numbers fluctuate up and down. There are seasonal declines and increases. But in the past 5 months or so, I’ve noticed a steady decline in download numbers.
Here are some specifics. In September/October of last year, the HJRP (the Friday advice show) was getting anywhere between 3000-3500 downloads per episode within two weeks of release (some episode got as high as 4000). Actual Plays were averaging between 1100-1200 per episode within two weeks of release.
In the last couple months, HJRP gets around 2000 downloads per episode within two weeks of release, while APs are now averaging about 900 per epiode.
We have been trying to figure out what changed to cause this kind of decline. It’s almost a 50% decrease for HJRP, which is a little alarming.
There are a few things that I KNOW contribute to this:
1. We’re producing A LOT more content now. Three APs per week, plus HJRP. Most people have a limited amount of listening time, and 3 AP plus HJRP every week amounts to about 10 hours of content per week. That’s a lot of listening hours. Certainly, people will pick and choose the APs they listen to, depending on system, cast, etc. So it doesn’t surprise me that the AP numbers are down. This may also account for part of the decline in HJRP’s numbers as well.
2. There are a lot of other RPG podcasts out there. The more choices there are, the more likely the niche audience for such content will be spread amongst the various shows. No surprise there.
But we’ve had some things happen that, I would think, would increase our listenership, rather than cause a decline. Firstly, Tappy returned. He’s a fan favorite (always has been), and provides a lot of insight about the hobby. We’ve also increase the diversity of the cast. In our Happy Jacks Hosts Slack, we have 32 users (this includes GMs, players in APs, and a few players in one-shots). We’ve made an effort to get as many of these people as we can on the show, with some success. As a result, our cast now reflects a broader cross section of the gaming community in general. We have indy gamers, traditional gamers, old gamers, young gamers, women gamers. We still talk shit about DnD, but that’s been a constant since the beginning.
Yet, with these changes, our numbers are still declining (albeit slower).
I also know that there are other ways people can get their podcasts. Spotify now has SOME podcast, and we’ve submitted our show, but because we’re self-hosted, it may be a while before our show shows up there (if you’re a Spotify user, and you’d like to see our show there, an email to them might speed it up, but who knows).
But none of the above-mentioned things should have caused such a precipitous drop in downloads.
So I put it to you:
Do you listen less often? If so, why?
Did you unsubscribe? (you’re probably not reading this if you did, but who knows). If so, why?
Do you listen to other shows in lieu of HJRP? What is it you’re getting there that you’re not getting here?
In short, if you listen less, and it’s a direct result of content or quality, I wanna hear it!
I know that when we switched from the studio to the gaming table, our sound quality took a hit, but the quality has been improving. In all honesty, it probalby won’t get back to where it was (this has to do with the mics we need to use at the table — large diaphram condenser mics are bulky and problematic).
And we ARE working on improving sound quality, but — not to sound like a dick — our sound quality is still a lot better than most RPG podcast out there.
Anyway, we want to hear your feed back on the show’s quality. Is there something we stopped doing that we should do again? Is there something we’re doing that we shouldn’t?
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Post by Stu Venable on Mar 21, 2018 21:53:50 GMT -8
If you’re not comfortable posting your feedback here, you can always email me. I’m the only one who reads the happyjacksrpg@gmail.com account.
Just make the email subject “podcast feedback” so I know it’s not for the show.
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Icel
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 11
Preferred Game Systems: Dungeon World
Currently Playing: Dungeon World
Currently Running: Dungeon World
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Post by Icel on Mar 21, 2018 22:03:56 GMT -8
Hello! First to answer the question: Yes, I've been listening less. No, it has nothing to do with you. Life's circumstances change so that I don't have a commute and I'm in a delay of about two seasons I always listen to Con episodes though because they're my favorite. Was so surprised to hear that Tappy is back when listening to the latest Orccon 2018 episode. Second - I have a gaming podcast in Hebrew, and for the exact same time period, we also had a similar decline in audience. Now, we're nowhere close to HJ numbers - our audience is in the hundreds, not thousands. But still, 50% drop over the last 6-8 months. Talking about this with another podcast producer, we thought that maybe one of the services people use for podcasting has stopped reporting or has changed their stats. It didn't seem right to me at first because the decline was gradual; but now, I'm reconsidering it.
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getwrecked
Initiate Douchebag
Participating in Extra Life 2015!
Posts: 4
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Post by getwrecked on Mar 21, 2018 22:20:09 GMT -8
I listen on Stitcher mostly these days, and the app hates your show some weeks. Won't always let me listen.
I work more these days so I have less time to listen.
I record my own show, and the amount of work I put into it strangely makes me less interested in listening to pod all together. Producing a show is slowly making the whole endeavour feel like work. Not sure if that makes sense or not, but there you go. Incidentally listening to you, Tappy and Stork back in the day having a great time on Happy Jacks is 100% responsible for my starting my own show.
Your show still has great content (I'd kill for half the listener mail you all get), and your sound quality is better than every other show I listen to, including my own.
My only critique is the sheer number of hosts you have on the Friday show. Back at the beginning listening to the show felt like listening to people I felt like I knew because it was mostly the same folks every week (like characters from a favorite TV show). Now I have a hard time connecting with any of the personalities because they change so often.
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Post by fray on Mar 21, 2018 22:50:29 GMT -8
Still listening/downloading the podcast since the beginning. I haven't listened to/downloaded the APs.
Weird seeing the drop, no idea why. Have you talked with any other (RPG) podcasters?
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Icel
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 11
Preferred Game Systems: Dungeon World
Currently Playing: Dungeon World
Currently Running: Dungeon World
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Post by Icel on Mar 21, 2018 23:30:52 GMT -8
And about the APs, I'm watching them on YouTube since I like actually seeing people when they play. Do you add the TY views to the stats?
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Adagio
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 3
Preferred Game Systems: d20, CoD, D&D 5E, Shadowrun (except 5th), Song of Ice & Fire
Currently Playing: Shadow of the Demon Lord
Favorite Species of Monkey: Monkey-bird from the island of Pandawa
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Post by Adagio on Mar 22, 2018 0:24:05 GMT -8
I've actually been enjoying watching the podcast on YouTube rather than listening to it, but I'm still subscribed via iTunes. *shrug*
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 1:51:46 GMT -8
So I'm a long term listener of both the main podcast and the APs. For the main podcast I'm still listening regularly and the show is one of the few that I virtually always finish in the week it is released. Due to timezones I only listen to the podcast through the feed and don't watch on twitch or youtube.
I enjoy having the rotating cast of hosts and have been listening long enough that only the newest ones are unfamiliar but can see why people might get put off by not having a small number of regular hosts. I think having the diverse range of hosts is good, especially given that it's rare now to have any episode where its just men on the show. Again though the rotating nature of the hosts makes it difficult for newer listeners to get a proper feel for the show in the short term.
The APs are a different matter for me.
When there were only one or two I listened to all of them but slowly found that I just couldn't keep up. Each of the AP episodes are long, having even one of those to listen to a week is stretching it for me on top of the regular show and all my other podcasts. For example I'm already behind on the new L5R AP and that's only a few episodes in while I got halfway through Mote before giving up, partially as I had gotten quite far behind.
In terms of things that factor in whether I listen to an AP there are a couple. First is whether I already have one on the go, I'm reluctant to add more as I know I can't keep up so if a new one starts while I'm already enjoying another I'll probably skip it. Second is whether things are actually happening, Mote is the prime example of this. For reasons that have been discussed it was prone to going round in plot circles and not really resolve anything, with the exception of Skully. Once Tim had left the AP I did notice my interest slowly waned, I fell behind and eventually stopped.
The final thing with the APs is the matter of the system. This might be a really personal thing but it gets to me when the players / GM seem unable to learn the system. I know it takes a while but if people still don't know basic rolls after a double digit number of episodes then I find I start getting irritated at the delays when rolls are made. It's happened on a number of the APs but Mote, again, was a clear example. I've never played Vampire but often felt I had a better grasp of the game mechanics than some of the players just from listening.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Mar 22, 2018 2:16:02 GMT -8
I am an old school listener, downloading the Friday ‘cast every week and generally enjoying it, though it doesn’t prompt me to comment here as much as it used to. I enjoy it (only) slightly less than I did, and getwrecked may have a point: with the somewhat less regular cast, the show doesn’t feel quite as much like sitting round a pub table with old friends as it used to. That was the show I loved. The latest iteration has less drunkenness and less swearing, and frankly I miss those things. I like the new crew members though, I just want to get to know them better. (Thought: would having cast profiles on the website help?) It feels as if you are focusing on streaming nowadays, and as a listener I feel a bit left out of that. But what are your viewing figures like? I wouldn’t watch AND listen, so have a bunch of us left the podcast to stream instead? I don’t listen as much to the APs, and I worry that you are producing ‘too much” content. I am currently enjoying Interpol X and L5R but I don’t subscribe to that feed, just download episodes when I have nothing else to listen to. One thing I have noticed is big business coming into the podcast world. I used to write for The Signal, and back then our little fan cast was one of the big boys in the field, regularly winning prizes etc. The total audience was smaller back then, but fan produced content was king. Now, with the BBC, Amazon and others not just producing, but also aggressively promoting their professionally produced casts, are us amateurs getting squeezed out of the market? Even if the market is bigger, with more to listen to, and exactly the same number of hours in the day, are we having to work harder for mind-share? Now, my own little addition to the podcast world The Coriolis Effect has a tenth of your listenership if that (edit more like a twentieth - our last non-AP episode has had 256 downloads in the last MONTH). We are still growing, but we are young, only 'casting since last year. Perhaps we are stealing your listeners? Where are you getting your stats? Here’s another thought. You talked last week about interviews I remember with the like of Steve Jackson, Shane Hennersly and errr... Matt Mercer (whoever he is). Do you need more game specific content, and interaction with creators, like you used to have?
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Post by uncommonman on Mar 22, 2018 3:49:44 GMT -8
I still listen to the main podcast but mostly on YouTube.
I follow some of the AP's but more sporadically (wait a few weeks the download many episodes at a time).
I had problems with the time it took to get a download compared to watching on YouTube/twitch because its harder to discuss the episodes directly (less interaction = less interest).
I don't know if its still a wait for the mp3 but I did rip some insert coin episodes from YouTube (#sorrynotsorry).
One thing that might be a reason for listener drop of is the lack of discussion of the AP's on the normal podcast, I think that there was more previously because there was less AP's.
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Post by uselesstriviaman on Mar 22, 2018 4:45:25 GMT -8
I listen on Stitcher mostly these days, and the app hates your show some weeks. Won't always let me listen. When I took my first baby steps into podcasts, a friend recommended Podkicker instead of Stitcher. Podkicker doesn't ever insert ads into the audio feed. I've been using it since HJ season 1, and have loved it the entire time. As to Stu's question, I still listen to the weekly podcasts. I almost never do the streaming thing, because I primarily listen during my commute to and from work. I started out listening to every single AP also, but the increased content made that impossible. I pick and choose which APs to listen to now, simply because I can't possibly do 'em all. If I had to hazard a guess, I do think the sound quality dropped significantly when you switched to the clip-on mics. It was really bad at the beginning, and has certainly improved, but it's still nowhere near as good as when you were using the big studio mics. I could be totally off base, though.
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Post by Kainguru on Mar 22, 2018 4:56:35 GMT -8
I’ve fallen behind but the podcasts are still downloaded every week - the reason for falling behind is private/personal life shit hitting the fan and taking priority. There is one small change in the presentation of the show that I have noticed: since switching to video streaming there is an unintended bias, at times, toward there being more visual engagement. When the podcast was audio only it really was like having a bunch of mates talking shit, and being entertaining, while one went about other mundane tasks. Video is great, but it does require more commitment to attend to it. There is also a culture shift in the internet in general - it’s becoming more polarised. I don’t think that’s anything the show can avoid, it’s the times we live in - sitting on a fence in the court in of public opinion results in both sides trying to push one into the other group (as an observation of how the internet is now, not specifically this show). They say you should never discuss politics in polite company, but everything seems to be political now - even when it isn’t. I will also admit that I was concerned with one of the format changes - when the show became more ‘structured’. That works for FtB, because that IS FtB - the differences in these shows are just as important as the similarities: they can survive side by side but not if they’re competing for the same niche Aaron
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Post by silentbodit on Mar 22, 2018 6:08:41 GMT -8
Stu, First time posting on the boards, I promise I’m not a spam bot lol. I don’t have much to give you on the topic in matters of improving the situation. I still listen through Itunes, and I look forward to the show every week. I do listen to less of the ap’s but that is more a relation of quantity of the content you are putting out than any quality issues (slowly going through the l5r ap’s). Yes the sound quality dropped but honestly your worst shows are still better quality than a lot of the field and it was never unlistenable. As far as diversity I have noticed that as well and while I miss not having some favorites there as often the diversity of hosts have been fun for the most part, hell I about shit myself when Tappy came back! I can’t help but wonder if some of your downloads have moved to people watching live or YouTube or the like but it’s a pretty significant drop so probably not all of it. All in all thank you for all you and the rest of the team do, and I will continue to listen and look forward to the pod. Cheers, Andrew
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Post by uncommonman on Mar 22, 2018 6:33:09 GMT -8
I’ve fallen behind but the podcasts are still downloaded every week - the reason for falling behind is private/personal life shit hitting the fan and taking priority. There is one small change in the presentation of the show that I have noticed: since switching to video streaming there is an unintended bias, at times, toward there being more visual engagement. When the podcast was audio only it really was like having a bunch of mates talking shit, and being entertaining, while one went about other mundane tasks. Video is great, but it does require more commitment to attend to it. There is also a culture shift in the internet in general - it’s becoming more polarised. I don’t think that’s anything the show can avoid, it’s the times we live in - sitting on a fence in the court in of public opinion results in both sides trying to push one into the other group (as an observation of how the internet is now, not specifically this show). They say you should never discuss politics in polite company, but everything seems to be political now - even when it isn’t. I will also admit that I was concerned with one of the format changes - when the show became more ‘structured’. That works for FtB, because that IS FtB - the differences in these shows are just as important as the similarities: they can survive side by side but not if they’re competing for the same niche Aaron You might be right about the face mic problem. I think my enjoyment of the AP's has lowered (but I still love/like them) since the twitch streaming started. The help a player mechanics and the reading of chat takes away from the feeling of belonging when you listen to the AP at a late date, it's like the difference of watching a sportsball live or watching it later.
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mysticfedora
Supporter
The truth lies somewhere in between.
Posts: 281
Preferred Game Systems: 5E, PbtA, OSR
Currently Playing: LotFP, 5E
Currently Running: 5E, PbtA, Stars Without Number, CoC 7e
Favorite Species of Monkey: Kong
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Post by mysticfedora on Mar 22, 2018 6:53:23 GMT -8
Thanks for posting this, and I'm sure between all of us we can provide something that can help.
First off, I know your data is limited so it's hard to find correlation. One thing I would do is check with other podcasters and see if they are experiencing the same thing. That will at least tell you if this is a general trend, or if it is just happening with HJ. Also, I would make sure nothing has changed with how you collect the data. In other words, are catchers reporting downloads differently? One thing I noticed was that if I watch the live stream, I don't bother downloading. Have views gone up? Does that account for some of the attrition?
Secondly I would look at the various databases you are listed in (e.g. iTunes), have they changed their algorithms without you realizing? Do you need to adjust how you are listed, categorized? Is this an SEO issue? Do you need to recalibrate your meta data so that search engines find you better?
You may have already checked all this, but sometimes when there is a big dip in analytics, it's because Apple did some stupid shit, or it's because a channel changed, or something like that. So it's worth reviewing.
I would like to say that I don't believe this has anything to do with the quality of the show. It is excellently produced, the cast is and continues to be great, and there is plenty of content to go around. I can't speak for the APs because I simply can't spend the time (I would if I could), but the regular podcast is one of the first I listen to weekly.
So this may have less to do with what you are doing more to do with attracting new listeners. My hunch is that there has always been attrition, it's a natural course for any effort. But what may have changed was your ability to attract new listeners. Obviously there will be no data to that affect, but in my years of marketing I can say that this is often more true with established brands. At some point, people get sick of Snickers and start moving onto Twix. Unless Snickers works to attract more Snickers-eaters... well, you get the point. And in the podcast world HJ is a known quantity. I would begin thinking of yourself as a mature legacy brand.
Now all of that said, I'm afraid that since it is my day job, I'm going to have to put on my PR/Marketing hat. I apologize in advance, as I use a bunch of bullshit marketing lingo. Because frankly if you are seeing dramatic attrition, you may need to look at these things from a marketing point of view. I'll do my best to not treat you like a client, because then you'd probably hate me. In any case, my focus here will be specifically on attracting new audiences. I'm sure there is another discussion on strategies around retaining current audiences, but that's for another lengthy post. Also, I have a hunch that listener retention is really the bigger issue.
Anyway, let's get down to it...
1. Influencer Marketing
One of the quickest ways to gain audiences is to borrow other people's. Featuring well known and popular guests periodically will often bring that guest's people with them and some (many?) of them will stick around. There are lots of giants in the gaming world who would love to be on your show, and you've had them in the past. I would just make this a regular thing. Maybe like once a month. If you get anyone from Critical Role (who are all local), or any of the guests at the cons you go to, or any of the other well-known and beloved podcasters, the audiences cross-pollinate.
Also you could invite well known APers to join your APs--which would mean setting up an online AP. But no problem, everyone does that. And it wouldn't get in the way of your established in-person ones. Some of these APers have ridiculous audiences, are excellent roleplayers, and many of us fans would love to see them play with HJers.
2. Thought Leadership
I know, I threw up a little in my mouth. But still, you need it. For all of your experience, charisma, and great insights, you really do keep it relegated to the show or to the Patreon. One way to attract new audiences is to be out there a lot more. Small interviews, Facebook Lives, YouTube live, hell Twitter live. Put out smaller, sharable, pieces of content that are engaging, funny, thought-provoking and share the shit out of it all over online. Spread your HJ seed. There is a social media presence for HJ, but it could be more prevalent, putting out morsels of content in places like G+ (which is still huge for gamers), and on Facebook groups.
Another way to do this is to create a content hub, where you put out what amounts to a digital magazine with all of your videos, articles, photos, and commentary. That means people will stick around and have a reason to stay on a website, where they can subscribe to your podcast.
Don't have time to produce all that shit? No problem! Create an editorial board and ask your community to submit and produce the content. Then you just edit it, collect it, post it, and distribute it.
And why stop there?
3. Leverage your brand advocates
All of us listeners want one thing. To be cuddled. We want the HJ light to shine down on us and make us feel important. Give us a platform for that! Why not empower, embolden, and formalize Jackercon. Give us branding, a network, and a place to put our own AP, videos, commentaries or blogs. That way you create a legion of minions are constantly talking-up and sharing HJ branding and links. Just host it all and you get all the credit. You could connect it all by bringing listeners on the show through Hangouts, spotlighting their content, or do stand alone hangout interviews.
This sort of listener engagement would not only tap their friends and network, but help with the retention issue as well. The Gauntlet is good at doing this, as an example.
4. Media Tour
Finally, the media tour. You have dozens of thought leaders (yes I said it again). Send them out! I see tons of podcasters going on other podcasts. That's another way to steal audiences--I mean, cross-pollinate. There are many successful podcasts out there that share your sensibilities and joining them as a guest helps spread the word outside this particular podcast bubble. Also HJers can submit content to other content sites like Gnome Stew with advice and opinions. I think this is one major thing I see other podcasters do that HJ doesn't. You are all such a strong long-standing brand you have perhaps become a bit insular.
That's about it off the top of my head.
I'd like to close with this by saying HJ is one of my favorite forms of entertainment. You are all incredibly talented and produce a fantastic show. I feel privileged to have met many of you. Try not to be discouraged, you're doing the Lord's Work. Just keep it up and the trend will inevitably change.
My thoughts above are tactics I've seen work with clients and with podcasters. I know you have a limited amount of time and energy. But any step forward on those items can make a huge difference.
Best of luck and thanks so much for sharing!
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