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Post by Kainguru on Mar 25, 2018 1:08:34 GMT -8
Maybe that's the problem - Twitch. Not all platforms are suitable for everyone and the benefit of 'coming on board' is actually destructive rather than constructive. HJ's is trying to grow it's audience but maybe the demographic from twitch just isn't appropriate (or maybe it is appropriate but the Twitch filter of conduct mean's they'll never get to know). Marketing theory and product promotion is all very well and good - except for a simple truth 'Safe-is-Bland' ie: I don't eat at McDonalds because their burgers are the best, it's just the convenience. If I want a good burger I know small cafe in downtown Brisbane that serves THE BEST burgers . . . except it's in Brisbane and I'm in the UK, it's always busy, it doesn't open til late . . . Aaron PS: If you lose 2 listeners for every Twitch listener you gain, is it worth it?
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Post by natebob on Mar 25, 2018 3:53:23 GMT -8
Personally, I suffered some personal tragedy recently. My mother-in-law, whom I was very close too, passed away in August and then my mother passed away at the end of January. I just wasn't finding gaming or RPGs that interesting for awhile. I've come back now and I am trying to catch up.
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Post by natebob on Mar 25, 2018 4:00:50 GMT -8
Maybe save the podcast for just YouTube and audio download? And only use Twitch for the actual plays? I do miss the bawdyness of there old show but I'm not going to quit listening because of it.
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Post by saddmann on Mar 25, 2018 7:13:05 GMT -8
First post. (Actually this poll got me to register) Not sure I can add much, but I subscribe through the Pocket Casts android app, and I am not certain how this registers as a download. I found you through JIB while listening on the SWGMH podcast, and I love the presentation. I get all of the APs through the app subscription, event though, to echo earlier comments, I don't have the time to listen to all of them. For that, You would need to count all AP downloads, but I am sure you've accounted for that. I am afraid I am not an overly discerning listener, as I consume just about everything I listen too without adding comment or critique to it.
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Post by beardybard on Mar 25, 2018 8:23:37 GMT -8
I listen the same mostly, but might have a couple of weeks between downloads just where life gets in the way.
I have had a few issues with iTunes just being a dick and not updating episodes, for a couple of weeks.
Content wise you are the best I tried to listen to "Lords of the Dungeon" but wanted to throw my iPod out the window.
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Post by RudeAlert on Mar 25, 2018 13:01:48 GMT -8
'Safe-is-Bland' PS: If you lose 2 listeners for every Twitch listener you gain, is it worth it? Preach!
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blydddreug
Apprentice Douchebag
BAAAAD doggie!
Posts: 69
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Post by blydddreug on Mar 25, 2018 16:03:42 GMT -8
I've been a listener for years now and I have noticed that I listen less often then I used too. To answer Stu's questions: Do you listen less often? If so, why?
I listen less often because of three reasons. Primarily, I don't care for the v-cast flavour of the moment format (Youtube, Twitch, etc) and this informs my first two reasons. - I listen while commuting so a podcast is the primary format I prefer, simple as that.
- I find the pacing and constant "gratification" that occurs during a real-time video show irritating. I'm not interested in what amounts to a third hand account of the chat scroll. I listen to the podcast so that I can hear the hosts banter, talk shit and address a listener email. When the shows stops to address a topic in the chat it seems less friendly and personable. Also, when an AP stops to address the chat it's jarring to the play of the game. I strongly suspect this point of view is my "grumpy old man" vibe starting to show through - back in my day blah blah blah...
- The hosts do tend to give the same advice and tell the same stories from time to time. I believe the show has addressed this, but it has been an issue for me.
Did you unsubscribe? (you’re probably not reading this if you did, but who knows). If so, why?
No, I have not unsubscribed. However, the space on my podcast device is limited so I don't download podcasts unless I intend to listen to them in the near future (perhaps others have this issue?). I do listen to other podcasts so HJRP is competing for space and my time. Do you listen to other shows in lieu of HJRP? What is it you’re getting there that you’re not getting here?
I do listen to other podcasts, but "in lieu of HJRP" is not the right term. I've tried listening to FtB (way back in the crossover days) and found their show to be inorganic and pretenious compared to HJRP - in short I couldn't stand listening to them. Competing with other advice related role-playing podcasts was not the issue. The other podcasts I listen to are other subjects: Economics - Planet Money, Freakonomics; Politics - NPR Politics, Embedded, Common Sense (when it was still running); Entertainment / Other - This American Life, Criminal, Fresh Air, Serial. This list along with whatever I might be listening to on Audible makes for quite a few different repositories for my attention. Given that fact I would say what I'm getting there vs. HJRP is those shows focus on the podcast / "radio listener" format. Concerning APs, I'm a completist, so if I commit to an AP I listen all the way through. That said not only does the AP have to be a system and genre I'm interested in I have to like listening to the GM and players in order to commit to it. Hence, I'm very picky about the AP I listen to. For example JiB's Mask's game was superb - got me in the feels! I was really looking forward to his Spaniard's Ghost campaign. However, I quite downloading it after the first game session due to the players involved (sorry Kurt - I'd love to sit and chat history with you over a couple of pints, but non-game related exposition during a session drives me up a while).
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Post by shadrack on Mar 25, 2018 19:32:34 GMT -8
WARNING: I did not read all 4 pages of this thread. feel free to flame me for repeating prior posts.
TLDR: overall I'm good. I'd like the help a player effect dialed way down (let 'em fail guys), and depending on tone, APs should consider limiting incorporating chat discussions (like a 1/hour update or something). I'm still in for all the shows though.
THE WHOLE POST=> Do you listen less often? If so, why? No, still download all, and listen to almost all.
Did you unsubscribe? (you’re probably not reading this if you did, but who knows). If so, why? still in.
Do you listen to other shows in lieu of HJRP? What is it you’re getting there that you’re not getting here? I listen to other shows as well.
Overall I am very satisfied with the content and the audio quality.
The major change that I see, and has been mentioned elsewhere, is the near constant ?contribution? of the chat. I find that I mind it far less in the actual show than I do in the APs.
APs => for me, instead of listening in on some people playing a game and getting drawn in to the story, now it feels like there's a peanut gallery constantly chiming in. While it is occasionally relevant (game rule clarification, etc.), unless you're running 'The Muppets' I don't really want to hear from Statler and Waldorf. I also feel it takes away from the player's investment in the game. And I have some pretty big concerns about the whole 'help a player' thing. In a lot of games, they seem... breaky, and take away a large measure of suspense on how the game is going to go. In a lot of cases, it feels like the help a players can essentially wipe out a character's chance to fail, in which case, just make them a low-grade success and skip the role. Not to mention how jarring the consistent status updates are on the running tallys of help a players. I understand their ?benefit? for the livestream as far as getting active involvement in the game from the viewers, but I think it's overstated. Perhaps a help a player revision along with a chat check in once per hour or so, as opposed to the running dialog. I think things like this should be adjusted for the tone of the game being played. Muppets, sure thing. Paranoia, it would probably be cool to have some chat-driven friend computer messages, but any game where a serious tone is being shot for, I don't think the constant drone is good.
Regular episodes => I'm really more fine with it here than in the AP's. no worries.
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Post by RudeAlert on Mar 25, 2018 20:40:34 GMT -8
The major change that I see, and has been mentioned elsewhere, is the near constant ?contribution? of the chat. I find that I mind it far less in the actual show than I do in the APs. APs => for me, instead of listening in on some people playing a game and getting drawn in to the story, now it feels like there's a peanut gallery constantly chiming in. While it is occasionally relevant (game rule clarification, etc.), unless you're running 'The Muppets' I don't really want to hear from Statler and Waldorf. I also feel it takes away from the player's investment in the game. And I have some pretty big concerns about the whole 'help a player' thing. In a lot of games, they seem... breaky, and take away a large measure of suspense on how the game is going to go. In a lot of cases, it feels like the help a players can essentially wipe out a character's chance to fail, in which case, just make them a low-grade success and skip the role. Not to mention how jarring the consistent status updates are on the running tallys of help a players. I understand their ?benefit? for the livestream as far as getting active involvement in the game from the viewers, but I think it's overstated. Perhaps a help a player revision along with a chat check in once per hour or so, as opposed to the running dialog. I think things like this should be adjusted for the tone of the game being played. Muppets, sure thing. Paranoia, it would probably be cool to have some chat-driven friend computer messages, but any game where a serious tone is being shot for, I don't think the constant drone is good. Regular episodes => I'm really more fine with it here than in the AP's. no worries. I definitely second all of that. I really miss the pre-chat days when it comes to APs. I know they can be useful when looking up rules if people in chat can help out, but I feel like it's not worth the frequent interruptions or distractions it can cause.
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Post by lowkeyoh on Mar 25, 2018 22:38:45 GMT -8
I don't think the blame lies with Twitch. The podcast has been less crude for seasons and over the last many years. There's a Gang Rape joke in season two. People use the term 'autistic' as a insult until around season eight. There's surely more but I remember those two because there were letters written into the show from people on that topic and an effort was put forth to make a show that didn't exclude people. That happened long before twitch.
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tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
Posts: 1,438
Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
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Post by tomes on Mar 25, 2018 22:53:39 GMT -8
Do you listen less often? If so, why? Nope. Always listen to the main 'cast. I'm not good at listening to APs, especially long-form ones, so rarely do. Did you unsubscribe? (you’re probably not reading this if you did, but who knows). If so, why? Nope. Do you listen to other shows in lieu of HJRP? What is it you’re getting there that you’re not getting here? Yes. Let's see if I can formulate some of my thoughts on what I'm getting, and not getting, here: - Loose format: This I definitely get here, and in the way I enjoy. I've always felt like listening to the podcast is a little like sitting around shooting the shit with my friends (except that you guys didn't know who the fuck I was). I was being introduced to new games, new ideas, and it was through y'all that I found out about Strategicon and started going. All great stuff. Although I love your loose / unstructured ways, this is often something I find really annoying about other podcasts, and so haven't really followed any other podcast with this structure.
- Rotating cast: I love your rotating cast, because honestly if it was the same folks every time (much like I've seen with other 'casts) I'd have probably dropped long ago. I think the rotating cast keeps it fresh (ideas, opinions, game systems, voices, humor, etc.)
- Structured format: This is not what Happy Jacks does. And it is something that I find some podcasts do well, and I really dig. Best examples are any of The Gauntlet's podcasts. They are still chatty in a friendly way, but they've got format. Many of them have recurring segments that occur in every episode. Honestly, this would erode a little bit of your conversational feel, but might aid in expectations. Like in the weekly 'cast the "what we've been playing segment" is one of my favorites, but gets forgotten if some of the hosts don't bring it up (gina always does cause she's excited to talk about that shit, and I'm excited to listen!). I would dig it, especially because I think you'd create a structure that works for you, which would probably still be unstructured enough for the fans to enjoy.
- Actual Play: Me, I'm not into long actual plays with lots of chit-chat and jokes and side conversations. I think your APs are much better than most, but I need APs that are curated and straight to the point. The only APs I've found I can listen to are Pocket Sized Play and Comic Strip AP, both of which are very short-form, edited APs put out for games where the players are just doing the gaming, mostly hippie story games, and with very little discussion of mechanics (mostly because the mechanics are always fairly light anyways). That said, I may not be the target audience to talk to about APs. It seems lots of people like listening to longer form games.
- Community: Originally I really came here quite often, in the forums. I appreciate that many of the boards were opened up to the non-member public a while back so folks on the net could peruse the forums without having to login; I think that was a positive.
All that said, I've come less frequently because of competing formats. G+ became a draw a few years ago, as everyone who's in RPGs seemed to use it. I started to spend less time on the HJ forums and more time there making connections as I started going to other conventions and meeting more gamers.
I know that Forresst pretty much runs the HJ Discord, but I've found Discord a bit harder for me to follow; I think that might just be a user preference. Also, it seems like all the HJ forums are somewhat disconnected from the host community. Jackercon, Discord, they are all unofficial, and so maybe don't get as much love from the HJ hosts. I wonder if participation by the hosts in those things would foster that community a bit more... but I don't know.
As of the last year, Slack is a big draw, and being a member of The Gauntlet community as a Patreon backer, I've got access to their member slack channel, and it's become a very tight knit community that I'm a part of. Being able to actually connect and chat with all the other big fans, as well as the various hosts, is a big draw. I'm under the impression that you have a slack that is really for the hosts and GMs and players to communicate with one other. I think having a Patreon level that provided access to that would probably bring in some folks who were interested in being part of a closer community, and those people in turn become bigger advocates. But that's just a guess based on my experiences elsewhere.
That's all I've got so far...
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Post by Kimi on Mar 25, 2018 22:57:35 GMT -8
I don't think the blame lies with Twitch. The podcast has been less crude for seasons and over the last many years. There's a Gang Rape joke in season two. People use the term 'autistic' as a insult until around season eight. There's surely more but I remember those two because there were letters written into the show from people on that topic and an effort was put forth to make a show that didn't exclude people. That happened long before twitch. I don't know if I'm supposed to chime in here, but I will. I agree with Lowkeyoh. While I think having our faced linked to our actions had more of an impact since we started streaming, there was some cleaning up before that. Part of that is just age and us changing a bit. Honestly, as a 30-something woman now, gang rape jokes just aren't funny. We still drink, but we tend to drink less than we used to because we are fucking older and have to actually do stuff the next day. I don't bounce back like I did a few years ago and I know the same is true for the other hosts. Now that many of us are parents/teachers/etc who work with/know/have children on the spectrum which makes autistic jokes a lot less funny. Honestly, life experience has been changing how I interact on the show for a while now. Maybe I'm just getting old and boring. I cannot speak for other hosts with this, I just can say that I have changed a lot since we started this show 9 years ago. *shrug* We hear you guys loud and clear about the chat and APs. We will be taking steps to fix that. We have had a chat room for the podcast for years now though. LONG before we started streaming and have consistently read things from the chat for the show. Is that something that has bothered people for the last 5+ years or is it just the APs that are annoying with it? Thanks for all your feedback!
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tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
Posts: 1,438
Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
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Post by tomes on Mar 25, 2018 23:12:20 GMT -8
We have had a chat room for the podcast for years now though. LONG before we started streaming and have consistently read things from the chat for the show. Is that something that has bothered people for the last 5+ years or is it just the APs that are annoying with it? I already wrote my thought on AP above... I like it focused. Listening to side chatter in the chat would annoy the hell out of me if I wanted to just hear the game doing the game thing. But I also don't listen to APs much so take my feedback with a grain of salt. But the chat for the regular podcast? I'd say KEEP THAT SHIT IN THERE! (in caps, even!) There is so much cool stuff that comes from the chat, including jokes, recurring members that are almost like hosts at this point (Sir Guido! Heavymetaljess! Hyvemynd!) I can understand cutting the chat from AP, but please oh god please keep that communication channel open during the weekly podcast. Especially when it's facilitated well. You ( Kimi) and gina and Stu Venable normally call comments out really well that are relevant or funny, and I'd hate to see that shit change.
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Post by lowkeyoh on Mar 25, 2018 23:17:14 GMT -8
Yeah, we would have never learned about Paul Photenhauer's cookbook Natural Harvest without the chatroom. And where would our lives be without that knowledge.
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Post by Kainguru on Mar 26, 2018 0:02:09 GMT -8
I really think that conflating 'gang rape jokes' et al with the less twitch friendly style of podcast of the past is disingenuous, and wrong. That shit wasn't acceptable then and it isn't now - I'm more disturbed that people claim to be looking at that period of time and saying they've come to that realisation. The two are not the same. HOWEVER - there is the concept of context. Nothing is forbidden when it comes to humour and sometimes offense is, well, not offensive ..... depending on the context (and the intent). Numerous comedians have hours of dialogue devoted to just this premise (more recent Ricky Gervais on his NetFlix special). I remember when the Fringe Festival Organisers declared "there is nothing inherently funny about terrorism, there never will be, we will not tolerate any attempts at humour using this topic because it will never be funny"; aside from flying in the face of the well documented sociocultural role of humour in helping groups process trauma, here we are 10yrs later and terrorism jokes abound. Final point HJ was never 'for the kids', it was a podcast for those adults with kids to get away from the little fuckers for a couple hours. That's the whole 'shooting the shit vibe', the same reason we go to the pub with our mates for few hours: to talk bullshit, be profane and not worry about setting a good example (even be hypocritical to a degree: 'don't drink to excess son, don't do drugs' while trowing back another JD and passing the dutchie to the left hand side) Aaron
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