mysticfedora
Supporter
The truth lies somewhere in between.
Posts: 281
Preferred Game Systems: 5E, PbtA, OSR
Currently Playing: LotFP, 5E
Currently Running: 5E, PbtA, Stars Without Number, CoC 7e
Favorite Species of Monkey: Kong
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Post by mysticfedora on Mar 23, 2018 16:24:26 GMT -8
-Regarding everything mysticfedora said. That shit scares me! That is pretty much the opposite of where I'd like to see Happy Jacks heading. I certainly don't want Happy Jacks to die, but one of the main things I loved about HJ from the beginning was the sense of community, the sense of knowing the people on the podcast, and the overall casual easy-going nature of it. Trying to make it into some giant, soulless, impersonal multi-media empire would pretty much kill it for me. Can definitely see your point. It's very much a different track. That's the problem with marketing, it means being appealing to a broader scope of people, and less for a particular niche. It is the classic "selling out" gesture that makes pre-Metallica Black cool and everything after it shit. So the question is, does HJ need to grow outside the niche it has carved? Or can it persist when the niche naturally dwindles or loses interest? I don't think it's a question that has to be answered right away, but at some point the need to attract new audiences may outweigh the need to hold onto a niche. Maybe it won't, but the numbers disclosed here are a little surprising. I think if this is something happening across Podcastverse, there's no real reason to expand audiences. But if it is happening just for HJ, it's worth exploring.
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Post by greatwyrm on Mar 23, 2018 17:26:49 GMT -8
I still listen, but I don't download as much. My schedule changed some, so I try to make it to the live stream whenever I can. The nights I make it, there's no point in downloading that show.
Sound quality hasn't been a problem for me. It seemed like there were a couple of weeks where everyone was getting used to the new setup, but no real problems after that. I listen to a crap-ton of podcasts and I can't tell any difference in sound quality between Happy Jack's and stuff I get from radio broadcasts and "professional" podcasters.
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Post by RudeAlert on Mar 23, 2018 18:15:17 GMT -8
-Regarding everything mysticfedora said. That shit scares me! That is pretty much the opposite of where I'd like to see Happy Jacks heading. I certainly don't want Happy Jacks to die, but one of the main things I loved about HJ from the beginning was the sense of community, the sense of knowing the people on the podcast, and the overall casual easy-going nature of it. Trying to make it into some giant, soulless, impersonal multi-media empire would pretty much kill it for me. Can definitely see your point. It's very much a different track. That's the problem with marketing, it means being appealing to a broader scope of people, and less for a particular niche. It is the classic "selling out" gesture that makes pre-Metallica Black cool and everything after it shit. So the question is, does HJ need to grow outside the niche it has carved? Or can it persist when the niche naturally dwindles or loses interest?I don't think it's a question that has to be answered right away, but at some point the need to attract new audiences may outweigh the need to hold onto a niche. Maybe it won't, but the numbers disclosed here are a little surprising. I think if this is something happening across Podcastverse, there's no real reason to expand audiences. But if it is happening just for HJ, it's worth exploring. Regarding the section I highlighted in Bold, that's an important question. That kind of depends on what Stu and Crew (Stu and Cru?) have in mind for the future of the podcast. I remember Stu saying, more than once though it's been some time, that he didn't want the podcast to turn into a job and that ultimately he was doing this for fun, and would continue for as long as it remained fun. Now, I don't know if that's changed since those days, but that would make a big difference. If this is still just an activity done for fun and out of love of the hobby, than I would say that fluctuations in listenership, and even dwindling listenership, isn't really that much of an issue. If, on the other hand, that focus has changed to trying to make this into a more commercially viable activity, then I would agree with everything you said in your previous post mysticfedora . But BOY do I ever hope that's not where Happy Jacks is heading. I have absolutely nothing against Happy Jacks becoming more popular and reaching a wider audience, but I would hate for that to happen at the expense of what made Happy Jacks so great to begin with, which already kinda happened when they started streaming on Twitch to a small degree. So I kinda wonder if that's the answer to the mystery right there; I'm obviously not the only one who misses the raunchier, more unfiltered feel of the original Happy Jacks, over the more polished, "kid-friendly" feel of this new, post-Twitch, Happy Jacks 2.0.
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SirGuido
Supporter
Drizztmas Santa
Ask me about the Drizztmas Exchange!
Posts: 2,127
Preferred Game Systems: L5R, Traveller, Fate Accelerated, Masks
Currently Playing: Nothing.
Currently Running: Nothing.
Favorite Species of Monkey: Anything in a Cage.
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Post by SirGuido on Mar 23, 2018 19:49:28 GMT -8
Unfortunately, yes. Partly because I watch the stream a lot, but also because some of the APs are just not genres I dig. Nothing you're doing wrong, just the way things are now.
Nope, not at all. But I did change podcatchers and my new podcatcher does not download every episode by default, I have to go in and purposely download the episode I want to listen to. From talking in Discord, it sounds like a lot of people use Podcast Addict like I do and I'm wondering if that might be partly responsible.
Actually Happy Jacks is basically the ONLY thing I listen to podcast-wise. There is so much content it fills my needs. Although I must admit I have just recently added in Shield of Tomorrow because of Sam and because I <3 Star Trek.
I was wondering the same actually. Since I don't listen to other things I have no idea if folks on other shows(like Nick, Mac, Sam, Pope, etc) talk about their appearances on HJ. If they do, awesome! if they don't... why for you no love us?
I am all for helping to spread the word. I think there are a lot of ways to do that. One is jumping into arenas where lots of gamer nerds congregate. Reddit is a great example. Some presence in r/rpg or r/rokugan or other similar places would help. I know that myself and Genhuman and a few others try to always retweet the HJ tweets. One of the things I think would definitely help is restreams. I know that Geek and Sundry does that a lot. It sort of pokes people that may follow you on Twitch, but miss most of the streams, that the streams are there. I think crossovers helped a lot too. Like the FtB crossover. You guys should try that again.
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Post by RudeAlert on Mar 23, 2018 21:27:09 GMT -8
So, after having just listened to the latest episode, I was thinking about this issue again and I feel I should add a detail that may run counter to what I said in my previous posts. In spite of missing the old vibe, I do still like the show so I'm not going anywhere for the moment, there may come a time when I grow tired of Happy Jacks and move on, but that hasn't happened yet.
Also, I thought of something else, with the growing number of hosts, it's quite possible that people who aren't as into the podcast (aka, the filthy casuals) might simply be less interested in episodes that don't feature their favorite hosts (let's be honest, we all have favorites). And since the larger pool of hosts means that some hosts aren't on the podcast as often, or barely at all (CaDave used to be pretty regular but now, aside from APs, he's hardly ever on the podcast. And yes, I realize that being there for APs probably means that he can't be as available for the podcast due to family commitments, but that was just one example), some listeners/viewers might be skipping episodes here and there if they don't feature the hosts they like. If enough people were doing that, assuming a variety of preferred hosts, could that be enough to account for a gradual decline?
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Post by ayslyn on Mar 23, 2018 22:08:55 GMT -8
I think the kindest way to address this is the Band-Aid method.... -Another point on APs was made by @whodo I will admit that this is pretty nitpicky, but my natural anal-retentiveness really gets triggered when I start to feel like I know the rules of a game that I've never played or even read better than the ones playing it. This is not a deal-breaker in itself, but I figured since someone already brought it up, I'd add my voice to it. I strongly suspect that you're just going to have to get over that. Some people just pick up systems faster than others. Some people don't care so much about following RaW. Mac, for instance, is a great example of this. When she feels it's important, she hews a close to the rules as she can. When she wants to get a little more poetic (like the spirit quest), she tosses the rules in favour of just co-operative narration. These aren't your games, you're just watching. It's like consuming a novel. It's fine if you're not happy with how it worked out, but writing the novelist to tell them how they should write is out of bounds.... This is Mac's (and crew) game. They get to play it however they want to. If that means Ultimate System MASTERY (it's over 9000!!) then that's fine. If it's loosey-goosey freeform, that's fine too. If it bothers you That much, then for your piece of mind, I would suggest moving on. Now, if Stu was promoting the APs as a way to learn to play..... That would be a different story. Rather, he's kind of giving us an inside look at what the advice and opinions on the 'cast look like at their tables.
As to the main thrust of the thread, I am still downloading via iTunes, but rarely listen to it.... This is because I stream the show via Twitch and YouTube (Yes, I do mean both simultaneously). I open up the stream on Twitch with the sound muted, for the chat room, and use the YouTube app on my TV to watch it in 50" HD glory.... I don't listen to the APs, generally for some of the reasons listed here. I have a limited time for listening, and only so much of that where I am willing to give it up to a longer show. If I am going to listen to the same thing for a LONG time, I'll hit one of my ever growing list of audiobooks (which I will likewise never catch up on....). So, the main AP takes up my Longer Than an Hour spot... Other than you guys, the only podcast that I am still listening to is KARTAS.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2018 1:39:10 GMT -8
I did unsubscribe. I can't remember why exactly, but I will say the podcast has gone downhill for me in general. I attribute a lot of that to the changing cast and the makeup of the cast. Diversity is great, but not at the cost of quality. I don't mind a newbies perspective, but that needs to be the minority. I'd rather listen to a table full of old white guys than people who started playing yesterday. I frankly couldn't care less about what their advice is unless it is about being a new player.
I still listen sporadically, mostly due to watching the boards for interesting discussions. I was listening to L5R, but the casts lack of specific setting knowledge drove me up the wall, so I stopped.
There also seems to have been a decline in horror stories, which were always one of my favorite sections of the podcast. Perhaps you should solicit your audience for them more?
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Post by RudeAlert on Mar 24, 2018 9:26:14 GMT -8
I think the kindest way to address this is the Band-Aid method.... -Another point on APs was made by @whodo I will admit that this is pretty nitpicky, but my natural anal-retentiveness really gets triggered when I start to feel like I know the rules of a game that I've never played or even read better than the ones playing it. This is not a deal-breaker in itself, but I figured since someone already brought it up, I'd add my voice to it. I strongly suspect that you're just going to have to get over that. Some people just pick up systems faster than others. Some people don't care so much about following RaW. Mac, for instance, is a great example of this. When she feels it's important, she hews a close to the rules as she can. When she wants to get a little more poetic (like the spirit quest), she tosses the rules in favour of just co-operative narration. These aren't your games, you're just watching. It's like consuming a novel. It's fine if you're not happy with how it worked out, but writing the novelist to tell them how they should write is out of bounds.... This is Mac's (and crew) game. They get to play it however they want to. If that means Ultimate System MASTERY (it's over 9000!!) then that's fine. If it's loosey-goosey freeform, that's fine too. If it bothers you That much, then for your piece of mind, I would suggest moving on. Now, if Stu was promoting the APs as a way to learn to play..... That would be a different story. Rather, he's kind of giving us an inside look at what the advice and opinions on the 'cast look like at their tables. Oh I am well aware that this is not going to change anytime soon, for me or anyone else's sake. But as I said, it's really not a deal-breaker, and I only mentioned it because someone else brought it up. Having said that though, lack of rules and/or setting knowledge can be a deal-breakers for some people, and while I seriously doubt that that would have become an issue just in the last few months for some reason, it could be a factor that might put some people off. And given that this podcast has become so AP-heavy in the last year or so, it could possibly be that a lot of the growth has been from people checking out the plethora of new and ongoing APs currently on offer, and finding them not to their taste due to a poor grasp of rules or settings, which in turn could lead to poor retention of new audience members.
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Post by ayslyn on Mar 24, 2018 9:50:28 GMT -8
Sure. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with it keeping you (or not) from listening. That's a preference thing. I, for instance, skip the convention episodes. I just don't like them very much. But, given that they only make up around 8-10% of the podcast, I figure I can just delete them off of my phone when they come up. No harm, no foul. Them what like the con shows get their love, I get mine the rest of the year. Everyone's happy(ish).
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andreasdavour
Patron (Supporter)
Posts: 257
Preferred Game Systems: M0, Savage Worlds, Over the Edge, Warhammer FRP 1st ed.
Currently Playing: None
Currently Running: Wandering Heroes of Ogre Gate
Favorite Species of Monkey: Llama
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Post by andreasdavour on Mar 24, 2018 11:22:53 GMT -8
Hi still listen and download (to listen on a mp3 player, no less! No internet!) the weekly show religiously. I really miss the "...and beer" and it has been bugging me. But, I would never unsubscribe because of that! I really am not very fond of the video streaming. First off I don't think it brings anything to the idea of some friends sitting and chatting around a table. We do I need to see how you look like? Also, it's in Pasadena Mean Time (because time is always mean in Pasadena, right?) and since I live in Europe.... yeah. Do I follow the AP? Not all of them. I give most of them a session or two, but have found I couldn't care less about the "hippy game" ones. The Vampire and L5R ones I love, though! Tappy is back, yeeeaahhh! Not all of the new hosts are great but some have been beyond awesome. Do I think the show has become a bit too structured? Well, it was funnier before when it was wild, beery and more than a little crazy. But, I do think that will get old. What I stay for is the chatter between people I have now built some kind of unidirectional relationship with. Hopefully it's related to gaming, but frankly it does not have to be, all the time.
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Post by Fiona on Mar 24, 2018 13:16:02 GMT -8
I've been listening since year one. I stopped downloading and switched to streaming on youtube because I enjoy seeing you all being silly together.
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GM Radio Rob
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 64
Currently Playing: Nothing yet.
Currently Running: Deathwatch
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Post by GM Radio Rob on Mar 24, 2018 17:01:47 GMT -8
Do you listen less often? If so, why?
No; I'm still getting the main show as a weekly download. I don't get enthused about actual plays as much, usually because I have a fairly narrow taste in RPGs / entertainment (usually has to be sci-fi related); I tried Tomorrow Legion for a bit but just didn't quite hook into it. I am a solid listener of Insert Coin, though.
Did you unsubscribe? (you’re probably not reading this if you did, but who knows). If so, why?
I have unsubscribed a couple of times in the past, either because I was in a "fuck RPGs, fuck podcasting, fuck it all" mood (less so nowadays) or because my podcasting situation went down the toilet (iPod crapped out, headphone jack on phone crapped out, Bluetooth headset crapped out - I like to listen during my commute).
Do you listen to other shows in lieu of HJRP? What is it you’re getting there that you’re not getting here?
Not many; I tend to listen to APs for a bit and then lose interest. I'm subscribed to: - WanderQuest (D&D 5e) - Warptides (Dark Heresy)
As to RPG discussion shows, I tired Fear the Boot but the atmosphere isn't as quite as relaxed as that of Happy Jack's. I like the feelign that I get to hang out with you folks more than get Focused Problem Solving RPG Content.
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Post by saulster on Mar 24, 2018 20:55:22 GMT -8
Hey Stu,
First of all I started listening about 2 years ago and I really liked your show. I was listening to Fear the Boot and after I had listened to all the shows that I had not listened to before I started listening to them, I heard them mention your show. I think you guys even went on their show once. I didn't immediately start listening to you guys even then. It wasn't until FtB became a little less regular due to health problems and life in general. So I started looking for other Podcasts. I started listening to another podcast called the Secret Cabal and other Boardgame Podcasts hoping to hear something about rpg. Though I play boardgames I am an RPGer at heart. Once I started listening to Happy Jack's I was hooked. I thought everybody on the show had a good rapport. It took a while to get used the language and belching but you guys were hilarious. Reminded me of FtB of a long time ago. What I really liked was that you had women on your podcast which is seriously lacking in many other Podcasts. So you listened to your entire backlog and now eagerly await your latest show. I agree that the revolving crew takes some getting used to. Every new show I was expecting to hear Stu, Stork, and Kimi with another members. Now its maybe one of the original crew and others. Though for me the fact that you guys are talking about rpgs is what matters. But I do understand the sentiment from others who already posted that it could be a factor. I don't listen to the AP's but I have tried watching them off Twitch and Youtube. Its always good to put a face to the voice. Other than that I have no idea why you would have such a dramatic drop in downloads. Hopefully its a reporting mistake and not people not listening. Your show is the best one out there for RPG's and the fact that you guys and gals have been doing it for so long shows that it is a labor of love for the hobby we all here hold dear to us. Keep doing the great job you have been doing. A thankful listener,
Saul
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nevvur
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 13
Currently Running: D&D 5e
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Post by nevvur on Mar 24, 2018 23:10:22 GMT -8
I've been listening off and on for a couple years, mostly on for the last few months. Nothing you guys have done has changed my listening habits. Sorry to hear the numbers are falling, but I like what you guys do. You're one of only two RPG podcasts I even listen to these days!
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Icel
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 11
Preferred Game Systems: Dungeon World
Currently Playing: Dungeon World
Currently Running: Dungeon World
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Post by Icel on Mar 25, 2018 0:17:12 GMT -8
The IAB released their podcast analytics guidelines, in December of last year, and the company we use for stats, Blubrry, immediately adopted them. There was a hit then, but there's also been decline since then. I'm using Blubrry as well, and have a similiar situation, as said before.
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