Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 3:17:56 GMT -8
There's enough straight white dudes wanting to keep non straight white dudes out of "their" hobby. I'm sure that some people must act like this, but I'm also sure it isn't the majority anymore (at least where I come from). Again, while I'm sure it wasn't your intention to paint with as broad a brush, many people identify as "straight white dudes". It's not a comfort that only 'enough' of the people who we resemble are asshats. Perhaps identify said people as douches and not as a wider demographic.
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Post by vyrrk on Apr 2, 2018 10:59:05 GMT -8
Ok. I talked with two guys I know who don’t listen to the podcast anymore and also happened to hear a comment from someone who still listens that all reflect the same thing. Each of them basically suggested that the two hour plus episodes were too long. The guy still listening said he was excited for Faire season to start because the podcast would probably be shorter. I, personally, like the long podcast but people I know don’t agree with me. Granted the sample size was really tiny so who really knows. Wow... I love the longer episodes. It makes me sad people wouldn't like that part.
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Post by RudeAlert on Apr 2, 2018 14:12:15 GMT -8
Ok, I think I've come up with a summation of some of the things that I and others have said in this thread that can be put into more specific and actionable advice. Here goes:
Do as much side-talk and random goofing off as you want (to keep listeners like me happy) BUT always take great care to properly address every email you read AND don't interrupt the person reading the email. Treat the process of reading an email as sacrosanct, in other words, no talking over the reader, no goofing off, and generally no distractions during the reading of an email. (Goof as much as you want before and after, just not during the reading.) If you MUST interrupt, make sure to do so at an appropriate natural pause in the email. This could involve doing a bit more prep before the show, to parse the emails into subsections if possible or pre-plan breaks into a long email to address sub-points. You could also ask listeners who want to send long emails to provide their own breaks as well. Another tip, maybe print the emails in a larger and/or more legible font. Let's face it, your old drunken eyes aren't always up to snuff and it can kind of interfere with the flow while you struggle to parse an awkwardly worded sentence. Also, perhaps print them double spaced, so other hosts have plenty of space to write down notes on their copy while the email is being read so they can go back to a point they wanted to make after the reading is done.
This may not address every comment that was made so far, but I feel like it would help straddle the line between hyper-structured rigidity, and total goof-fest. I love the goof-fest but I have to admit that a little structure and seriousness don't hurt. I remember many a time when you guys would talk at length about some random topic that was only tangentially related to the question posed in an email, only to conclude after 20 minutes or so, "Alright, I think we've answered that email pretty well" and I was left kinda puzzled, wondering "What? When? You guys barely addressed the topic of the email before moving on to some barely related tangent and never went back to the main topic!" Don't get me wrong, as I've posted before, I love the tangents and the random goofery, but it should never come at the expense of properly addressing each email that was sent to you.
So, how does this look to you all? I'm sure it's not up to everyone's specific preferences but I feel like that's a pretty good middle ground to please as many listeners as possible.
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Mike from MI
Initiate Douchebag
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Currently Running: Eberron 5e
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Post by Mike from MI on Apr 3, 2018 2:33:22 GMT -8
There's enough straight white dudes wanting to keep non straight white dudes out of "their" hobby. I'm sure that some people must act like this, but I'm also sure it isn't the majority anymore (at least where I come from). Again, while I'm sure it wasn't your intention to paint with as broad a brush, many people identify as "straight white dudes". It's not a comfort that only 'enough' of the people who we resemble are asshats. Perhaps identify said people as douches and not as a wider demographic. Good point. Edited to say "douches wanting to keep traditionally excluded people out". Thanks for pointing it out; I have to realize this is a very different place to talk than where I usually social meteor. And hey, one of my best friends is a straight white dude!
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Post by kurtpotts on Apr 3, 2018 12:33:58 GMT -8
And hey, one of my best friends is a straight white dude!
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Post by amadeuswg on Apr 4, 2018 5:20:47 GMT -8
Hi, Finnish long time listener, new to the Happy Jacks forum but had to give my opinion about podcast listener rate. Im a office worker so i have 3-8 hours to listen podcast (mainly metagamers anonymous and happy jacks) but have many other to listen. After i noticed that HJ APs come to youtube earlier than to the podcast i started listening them from there. So i think one of the reason for dropped numbers might be the visual side of the show currently. I would suggest making a spreadsheet and check if the listeners have just transfered to watchers. I would think that the overall fan base hasn't change that much in numbers at least not to the negatives. Sorry for any typos in this text.
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pjs37
Supporter
Posts: 43
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Post by pjs37 on Apr 4, 2018 14:25:07 GMT -8
Ok, I think I've come up with a summation of some of the things that I and others have said in this thread that can be put into more specific and actionable advice. Here goes: Do as much side-talk and random goofing off as you want (to keep listeners like me happy) BUT always take great care to properly address every email you read AND don't interrupt the person reading the email. Treat the process of reading an email as sacrosanct, in other words, no talking over the reader, no goofing off, and generally no distractions during the reading of an email. (Goof as much as you want before and after, just not during the reading.) If you MUST interrupt, make sure to do so at an appropriate natural pause in the email. This could involve doing a bit more prep before the show, to parse the emails into subsections if possible or pre-plan breaks into a long email to address sub-points. You could also ask listeners who want to send long emails to provide their own breaks as well. Another tip, maybe print the emails in a larger and/or more legible font. Let's face it, your old drunken eyes aren't always up to snuff and it can kind of interfere with the flow while you struggle to parse an awkwardly worded sentence. Also, perhaps print them double spaced, so other hosts have plenty of space to write down notes on their copy while the email is being read so they can go back to a point they wanted to make after the reading is done. This may not address every comment that was made so far, but I feel like it would help straddle the line between hyper-structured rigidity, and total goof-fest. I love the goof-fest but I have to admit that a little structure and seriousness don't hurt. I remember many a time when you guys would talk at length about some random topic that was only tangentially related to the question posed in an email, only to conclude after 20 minutes or so, "Alright, I think we've answered that email pretty well" and I was left kinda puzzled, wondering "What? When? You guys barely addressed the topic of the email before moving on to some barely related tangent and never went back to the main topic!" Don't get me wrong, as I've posted before, I love the tangents and the random goofery, but it should never come at the expense of properly addressing each email that was sent to you. So, how does this look to you all? I'm sure it's not up to everyone's specific preferences but I feel like that's a pretty good middle ground to please as many listeners as possible. Exactly this-I am glad I am not the only one who has thought this at times. Sometimes I feel like you do kinda go off the rails but never actually answer it and I have heard Stu and others check if they answered it but sometimes it still hasn't or barely been touch. It gets frustrating.
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
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Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Apr 4, 2018 21:37:58 GMT -8
Stu Venable Is it possible that the reporting algorithm(s) for the distribution services have changed? Have any of the other hosts in your Star Chamber of podcasters experienced similar stat reduction? CinC It's possible Bobcat, but we haven't been able to find any definitive proof of that yet. Usually changes like that are posted/reported somewhere or rumors of them float around podcasting communities. We aren't seeing or hearing anything. And it is possible that we are just producing too much content. We may slow our roll on how many APs are going at once to see if that helps. (NOT CANCELLING SHOWS!) Yeah I think the embarrassing amount of content riches you now have is diluting the audience. APs look very similar to the Friday cast in most pod catchers and new listeners or casual listeners may not be able to figure out what’s going on...the L5R AP has the same music as the Main Show. It’s all good branding to a point but I’m not surprised if the casual listener is left wondering what to do with it all....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 3:17:12 GMT -8
I didn't realize it until I started listening to 21-12, but I think I've identified why I stopped listening regularly. It's because there had become a kind of cult built around a single philosophy. Everyone had to agree about everything. There could be no great debates or dissenting opinions. Everyone seemed to have drank the kool-aid.
Then Tappy came back and said, "Never fudge dice" and "Don't give a mook a rifle you don't want them to use" and I cheered. People often talk about being represented in the hobby. We need more women. We need more people who aren't white. We need fill in the blank. Well, what I think we need are people who aren't afraid to dissent on an issue. I can't hear the color of a hosts skin (though I can hear the difference between male and female), but I can hear a difference of opinion. That's what I want.
I want people who will share my opinions and people who will challenge them. Give me that and you'll have my listenership every week.
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Post by angelis1974 on Apr 5, 2018 4:24:45 GMT -8
Well I still listen to the main podcast, or more strictly watch it on You Tube on a Saturday morning, but I agree with others, the chat has a tendency to intrude on the flow of things.
Indeed the intrusion of the chat is one of the reasons I have stopped listening to the AP’s as it just kills the flow of the game. However that is not the main reason I have stopped listening to the AP’s, that mostly comes down to whether I am interested in the systems being run and at the moment none of them spark my interest. And on a last note which may be personal to me, there are a few AP’s I have listened to where the players have done things that are so out of context for the game being player it would get them kicked from the game if I was running that game, and once that happens I just can’t listen to that AP any more.
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tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
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Post by tomes on Apr 5, 2018 8:47:23 GMT -8
APs look very similar to the Friday cast in most pod catchers and new listeners or casual listeners may not be able to figure out what’s going on... To that end: maybe also consider using a different image / icon for the main cast vs the APs? The HJ 'cast vs AP are different streams, and I know I've mucked up my playlists before by accidentally including one vs the other in a playlist. I can't imagine what a new user much feel coming into this process. I know the live shows have a warning in the front to new listeners. I'm not necessarily advocating that for general episodes. But I'm also wondering how Kimi was asking about episodes that might be good starter ones... would it be worth having something extremely short like "New to the podcast? Episode 21-13 might be a good place to start!" It's short, could be updated occasionally as more recent "exemplary" episodes come out. Eh, it's an idea.
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Post by akavidar on Apr 5, 2018 19:07:33 GMT -8
After reading through all the posts, the question that occurs to me is: Why did Happy Jacks move into Twitch?
The whole purpose of Twitch is to provide a way for listeners/watchers to interact with Providers of content.
From the comments in this thread it appears that most listeners don't want to interact with the podcast live, so perhaps Twitch was a bad move, since Twitch's main purpose is to provide live interaction.
Just my 2 cents. Worth every penny.
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viscounteric
Initiate Douchebag
A child's projectile vomit is a SAN check, no matter what
Posts: 23
Preferred Game Systems: Call of Cthulhu, Hackmaster, My Little Pony, Savage Worlds, Spirit of '77
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Post by viscounteric on Apr 5, 2018 19:12:07 GMT -8
Each of them basically suggested that the two hour plus episodes were too long. The guy still listening said he was excited for Faire season to start because the podcast would probably be shorter. That current listener seems rather wise. Anything over ninety minutes and I end up putting my headphones down at some point and let the episode play through (and looking through my library, I've just ignored five episodes thus far this year.) I schedule my Friday for the latest Ken and Robin ep to drop. I cross my fingers for an open lunch on a day with a new One Shot or Campaign. Two plus hours of Happy Jacks with fifty minutes of somewhat repetitive material. I'm not an actively engaged listener. And I haven't listened to an Actual Play since session two of Tales from the Loop, and I was following about 25% of them any given week.
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Post by ayslyn on Apr 6, 2018 3:14:50 GMT -8
After reading through all the posts, the question that occurs to me is: Why did Happy Jacks move into Twitch? The whole purpose of Twitch is to provide a way for listeners/watchers to interact with Providers of content. From the comments in this thread it appears that most listeners don't want to interact with the podcast live, so perhaps Twitch was a bad move, since Twitch's main purpose is to provide live interaction. Just my 2 cents. Worth every penny. My understanding was that it’s the APs where people dislike the chat interaction, not the main show.
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Post by yojimbohawkins on Apr 6, 2018 6:22:05 GMT -8
I had to think quite a bit about this topic before posting my thoughts. I'm not a podcaster or a broadcaster in any way; I have no practical experience at creating and maintaining a podcast (and my internet connection is such that it would be difficult anyway), so i have a great deal of respect for people who have the drive to create and publish something creative. I've been listening since episode 1, and have written in a few times, and I suppose I could have said that I was a fan of the show. Have I unsubscribed? No (and I'm not sure why). Do I listen? Sadly, not very often, if at all, and after a bit of thinking, I feel that there are a few reasons. Show length.The show is too long for me now. I don't watch or listen live (I'm on the other side of the Atlantic, after all), and I don't have access to YouTube in work, so I would only listen on my commute. I listen to other shorter podcasts which fit in my lifestyle (and if the main show is too long, the AP's definitely are). Show content.I started to skip podcasts when I began noticing the same advice and examples being used again and again and again. I seem to recall one show where the advice of 'have a grown-up conversation' was basically the answer to every email. I haven't listened since the expansion to include all these new hosts, so I suppose that may have changed, but I have no incentive to get back into it anyway (they all seem so young compared to this retired British Army Officer! ). Show topics obviously won't appeal to everyone all the time, but generally there isn't much to hold my interest. That's not as bad as Fear the Boot; I stopped listening to them because they got a bit preachy for me, and I got tired of hearing how awesome Brodor (Brodur? Brodeur?) was when he was on a drink/drugs/whatever bender. HJ just got a bit repetitive, although to be fair good advice is still good advice, I guess. Hosts & Guests.I don't really know the new hosts that are now involved, so I can't speak to them, but my interest in the show began to wane when you started lionizing the Angry GM. I heard a number of podcasts talk about what a great guy he is (and to be fair, in person he probably is), but I just can't see how denegrating and patronising someone who asks for advice is constructive or useful (and Angry is very condescending). The only host who called him on his bullshit was Tim. Because of that, I lost a bit of respect for everyone who was present for those shows (except for Tim). I'm sure none of you will lose any sleep over that, but it was definitely a contributing factor to my gradual loss of interest in Happy Jacks. I listened to the episode in which Tappy made his return, but other than that, I'm not really interested any more. AP's.Too long and nothing interests me. I was looking forward to the return to L5R, but the alarm bell started ringing when Stork picked the Mute disad, then immediately took steps to ensure it wouldn't affect him. You guys have decried that sort of thing many, many times, and I didn't hear any sort of 'grown-up conversation' about it either; there were a few disparaging remarks, but it did nothing to address the concerns of literally everyone else at the table. That felt a touch hypocritical to me, so I was out at that point, and judging by some of the remarks on the forums, that probably wasn't a bad thing because it's something I probably wouldn't have been able to get past. 'Finding the Funny'.The show has always been generally amusing, but things started to get out of hand. A host would say something that the others thought funny, then someone else would riff off that, then someone else, then someone else, then the original host again, to the point the hosts were all talking over each other to try and out-do each other, so you can't hear anything clearly because you're all talking and laughing at the same time. To make matters worse, a host would then start with the email or topic again, and then another host would chime in with another riff on the original comment, and start it all off again, or come up with something else they find funny about the original comment several minutes later. I found myself skipping forward to try and find where you would pick up the email or topic again; in the end it got very tiresome. You were all funny in your own way; there really wasn't a need to try so hard. This all seems quite miserable when I read it back. I'm not entirely sure it's very constructive for you, Stu Venable. One person gradually falling out of love with the show probably doesn't mean a lot if there are more people who thoroughly enjoy it. Things grow and change, and change is generally a good thing, but unfortunately for me, Happy Jack's is basically something I used to listen to, and that makes me a bit sad.
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