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Post by ericfromnj on Apr 25, 2018 4:12:58 GMT -8
I guess I'm the odd man out here. This is the first time I've even heard of Critical Role. You are not alone. Same here.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Apr 25, 2018 4:56:34 GMT -8
Continuing with the porn analogy (because why would we NOT?) - people have different tastes. Some people enjoy super high production quality porn with lighting, body makeup, professional performers, scripts, etc. Some people prefer the amateur videos with a more "real" feel to them shot in someones house. Some prefer all girl videos, some prefer all guy videos, etc etc. You can see where this is going. Don't kink shame with porn or actual plays. Let people like what they like as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult. Also, thank you all for slumming it and liking our stuff. To continue the porn analogy further, we aren't shaming the people who like different styles of porn or the kinks they have, we're annoyed by strangers that tell us we aren't doing it right because we don't bang like Stoya (You're welcome). Love Critical Role and your brand of APs as much as you like. Don't criticize your DM based upon them, though. For all we know there are people out there who point at their GM and say "You don't run Vampire like Stu Venable!" and raise thy nose upwards in disgust.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Apr 25, 2018 5:03:42 GMT -8
Yeah, I guess it’s the equivant of “but all the girls do anal” if you replace “all the girls” with “Matt Mercer” and “anal” with “great accents”...
Me, I like my APs like I like my porn, amateurish and with a bit of spanking...
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nevvur
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 13
Currently Running: D&D 5e
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Post by nevvur on Apr 25, 2018 5:40:39 GMT -8
For those who tried to watch the show and struggled to keep engaged, I totally get it. It took me like... three tries before I got into it. Why the hell did I even try three times? Because most of my friends watched it and I liked knowing WTF they were talking about and being able to participate in their discussions. It was like being the only dude at the office who hasn't seen Game of Thrones.
I still haven't watched the first campaign, but I soldiered through the first three sessions of the second campaign and slowly but surely found myself engaged. The PCs are slow to reveal themselves, but reveal themselves they do, and they're all pretty interesting!
I will say this: Jester is so fucking annoying I nearly quit again on my third try; the player herself seems to struggle with understanding when 'comic relief' is appropriate - in her world, it's always on, and always on full blast. Then she did... something... that was so touching I actually cried. Episode 8. I won't spoil exactly what happened, but the scene wouldn't have had nearly the impact it did if the character wasn't such a twat at all other times.
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Post by joecrak on Apr 25, 2018 6:24:31 GMT -8
I only first heard of Critical Role last year at PAX Unplugged.
They don't play wrestling games, so I don't listen.
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Post by EricaOdd on Apr 25, 2018 6:46:33 GMT -8
I will say this: Jester is so fucking annoying I nearly quit again on my third try; the player herself seems to struggle with understanding when 'comic relief' is appropriate - in her world, it's always on, and always on full blast. Then she did... something... that was so touching I actually cried. Episode 8. I won't spoil exactly what happened, but the scene wouldn't have had nearly the impact it did if the character wasn't such a twat at all other times. I haven't watched the series, but as someone who often runs the "comic relief" type character, I do agree with you that it needs to be turned off sometimes. I'd never use my character's wackiness to the detriment of the party. I once ran a gnome cleric in Pathfinder, and in that setting gnomes are an inherently flighty species. She was goofy as heck in role-playing situations, but when the chips were down, she was the party cleric and did that job well.
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tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
Posts: 1,438
Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
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Post by tomes on Apr 25, 2018 6:56:38 GMT -8
Yah, I've tried so many APs from different groups, and just thought I didn't like APs. Until I found the ones I do. Pocket Sized Play and Comic Strip AP - they play a session or a few of an RPG, small tables generally (often 1:1), and even after playing a session with little fluff and out-of-game chit-chat, they then edit it down further, and release it in 10 minute episodes. I'm fucken hooked. Monsterhearts, Malandros, The Woodlands (PbtA Mouse Guard), Coriolis, Dungeon World, Don't Rest Your Head, Murderous Ghosts, Burning Wheel, Urban Shadows, Dogs in the Vineyard, Monster of the Week, The Indie Hack... I go on, but only because it's worth going on. ( joecrak: No WWW on these APs, but there are many recordings of the community playing it on Youtube)
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Post by uncommonman on Apr 25, 2018 7:41:17 GMT -8
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tappy
Journeyman Douchebag
Host
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Favorite Species of Monkey: Space Monkey
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Post by tappy on Apr 25, 2018 9:49:11 GMT -8
The only thing I can really say to your point is that when you find out what good actually is, then what is mediocre and you thought was good tastes mediocre and you know it. Learning what good is and that you can enjoy it is ostensibly a good thing, though I imagine it sucks if you have only ever had McDonalds in your life, and you have a real burger... See that's the whole point, I've known for a long time that there are different gaming styles and that not every group is as "good" as another (quotation marks to denote subjectivity). The thing about Critical Role for me, is that it's been kind of a rude awakening regarding just how wide the gulf could actually be. Combined with the fact that most of my gaming experiences have been of the "McDonald's" variety, that made that awakening all the ruder, kinda like being woken up with a jackboot to the balls. That isn't the same thing as taking away from your experiences. That isn't reducing them... those experiences are the same, you just have a new lens from which to see them. If you alter your expectations for a McDonalds Burger after you have In-n-out, you will be let down because your expectation doesn't meet reality. If you know what you are getting into when you eat McDonalds, you can still enjoy it. Experiences are not zero sum. When you experience something you really enjoy, your other experiences are not reduced to compensate. This is my point. I love singing lieder, but if I expected to be Bryn Terfel I would hate my singing so much I would quit. A once sang with a friend of mine that is an opera singer in Berlin, and she is AH-MA-ZING, and way better than I am. I could look at that experience as terrible, because I wish I was as good as she was, or I could look at it as great, because it was so much fun to sing with someone as good as she is. If I go to a recital at the Hollywood bowl, I can enjoy the performance of someone talented and experienced in their craft, or I can decide that my singing isn't as fun anymore, because now I know what amazing singing sounds like. I love playing capoeira, but if I expect to be like Lateef Crowder, I would hate how I play and never get into a roda again. You could describe my game in a roda like a McDonalds experience, it is not flashy and unrefined. I have been playing capoeira since 2001, but I will never enter the roda with a backflip, or jump over someone into a handstand, transition out and kick themin the face as they turn around. Lateef's game could be described as the best steak in the world, but after seeing it, do I like playing capoeira any less? I have played against Lateef, and it was a fun, humbling experience. But it doesn't reduce my enjoyment of capoeira. I COULD let it do so, to be upset that I'm not like him and will never be like him. I didn't grow up in Brazil playing capoeira since I was 3, and I certainly am not as young as he is. I could bemoan the fact that I can't backflip, and consider my game lesser because he is so good. But I don't, because that isn't how things work. My skill level is still the same, and I still have just as much fun. If you consider experiences to be zero sum, you are setting yourself up to have a shittier life for no reason. That is a trap. If you think that is the way the world works though, I don't think anything I can say will change your mind. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Ok, So to really beat a horse to death... Porn is not like sex. Porn is to sex as WWE is to college wrestling. In WWE they do all sorts of CRAZY shit, like tagging in extra people, doing crazy stunts, and hitting people with chairs. College wrestling is a close and protracted sport involving two people writhing around on a mat. One is for entertainment or other people, the other is something the participants do for themselves, regardless if who is watching. If you have sex expecting it to be like porn, you will be disappointed. Porn usually doesn't have enough foreplay, people all know what is going to happen before hand, they are placed in specific ways in order to see everything from one viewpoint.. it is produced and directed. An orgy is a literal clusterfuck. There are elbows and knees all over the place, heads crash into each other when someone shifts their position at the wrong time, or zigs when they should have zagged. They are totally chaotic, hilarious, and much like a game of twister that only half the people on the board are actually playing at any one time. It is TOTALLY different than what you would see in porn. If you consider the sex you are having to be not as good because you do not think they are as attractive as women you have seen in entertainment, then I kinda feel bad for the people you are banging. Either that or you need to hire a make-up and hair person, as well as a lighting person to work your sex in order to make reality meet your expectations. It is a performance, it is produced. Also, to quote Benjamin Franklin "When all candles be out, all cats be grey." That is where the analogy is most salient. If you learn how to orgy from porn, you will not be doing it right with you try to orgy. If you try to sex like porn your partner will be annoyed at your lack of foreplay, and you will be left confused at how it wasn't the same. You could be banging the hottest person the world has ever seen, but the experience will not be as produced. If porn is what you have decided "good" sex is like, you will never have "good" sex. I know literal porn stars, I even managed to convince one to be in a Boggards music video. They would be the first to say that porn is not like sex, it is a performance. From your quote here, I think you are saying the same thing, but we all know how much I like to split hairs.
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nevvur
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 13
Currently Running: D&D 5e
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Post by nevvur on Apr 25, 2018 11:05:49 GMT -8
I think at this point we should just shift the conversation away from Critical Role and focus exclusively on porn.
Who likes butt stuff?
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Post by RudeAlert on Apr 25, 2018 11:36:20 GMT -8
See that's the whole point, I've known for a long time that there are different gaming styles and that not every group is as "good" as another (quotation marks to denote subjectivity). The thing about Critical Role for me, is that it's been kind of a rude awakening regarding just how wide the gulf could actually be. Combined with the fact that most of my gaming experiences have been of the "McDonald's" variety, that made that awakening all the ruder, kinda like being woken up with a jackboot to the balls. That isn't the same thing as taking away from your experiences. That isn't reducing them... those experiences are the same, you just have a new lens from which to see them. If you alter your expectations for a McDonalds Burger after you have In-n-out, you will be let down because your expectation doesn't meet reality. If you know what you are getting into when you eat McDonalds, you can still enjoy it. Experiences are not zero sum. When you experience something you really enjoy, your other experiences are not reduced to compensate. This is my point. I love singing lieder, but if I expected to be Bryn Terfel I would hate my singing so much I would quit. A once sang with a friend of mine that is an opera singer in Berlin, and she is AH-MA-ZING, and way better than I am. I could look at that experience as terrible, because I wish I was as good as she was, or I could look at it as great, because it was so much fun to sing with someone as good as she is. If I go to a recital at the Hollywood bowl, I can enjoy the performance of someone talented and experienced in their craft, or I can decide that my singing isn't as fun anymore, because now I know what amazing singing sounds like. I love playing capoeira, but if I expect to be like Lateef Crowder, I would hate how I play and never get into a roda again. You could describe my game in a roda like a McDonalds experience, it is not flashy and unrefined. I have been playing capoeira since 2001, but I will never enter the roda with a backflip, or jump over someone into a handstand, transition out and kick themin the face as they turn around. Lateef's game could be described as the best steak in the world, but after seeing it, do I like playing capoeira any less? I have played against Lateef, and it was a fun, humbling experience. But it doesn't reduce my enjoyment of capoeira. I COULD let it do so, to be upset that I'm not like him and will never be like him. I didn't grow up in Brazil playing capoeira since I was 3, and I certainly am not as young as he is. I could bemoan the fact that I can't backflip, and consider my game lesser because he is so good. But I don't, because that isn't how things work. My skill level is still the same, and I still have just as much fun. If you consider experiences to be zero sum, you are setting yourself up to have a shittier life for no reason. That is a trap. If you think that is the way the world works though, I don't think anything I can say will change your mind. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Ok, So to really beat a horse to death... Porn is not like sex. Porn is to sex as WWE is to college wrestling. In WWE they do all sorts of CRAZY shit, like tagging in extra people, doing crazy stunts, and hitting people with chairs. College wrestling is a close and protracted sport involving two people writhing around on a mat. One is for entertainment or other people, the other is something the participants do for themselves, regardless if who is watching. If you have sex expecting it to be like porn, you will be disappointed. Porn usually doesn't have enough foreplay, people all know what is going to happen before hand, they are placed in specific ways in order to see everything from one viewpoint.. it is produced and directed. An orgy is a literal clusterfuck. There are elbows and knees all over the place, heads crash into each other when someone shifts their position at the wrong time, or zigs when they should have zagged. They are totally chaotic, hilarious, and much like a game of twister that only half the people on the board are actually playing at any one time. It is TOTALLY different than what you would see in porn. If you consider the sex you are having to be not as good because you do not think they are as attractive as women you have seen in entertainment, then I kinda feel bad for the people you are banging. Either that or you need to hire a make-up and hair person, as well as a lighting person to work your sex in order to make reality meet your expectations. It is a performance, it is produced. Also, to quote Benjamin Franklin "When all candles be out, all cats be grey." That is where the analogy is most salient. If you learn how to orgy from porn, you will not be doing it right with you try to orgy. If you try to sex like porn your partner will be annoyed at your lack of foreplay, and you will be left confused at how it wasn't the same. You could be banging the hottest person the world has ever seen, but the experience will not be as produced. If porn is what you have decided "good" sex is like, you will never have "good" sex. I know literal porn stars, I even managed to convince one to be in a Boggards music video. They would be the first to say that porn is not like sex, it is a performance. From your quote here, I think you are saying the same thing, but we all know how much I like to split hairs. Ooooooook, we're still on this I guess. There is one big, fundamental error in your assessment of this whole situation. I do NOT control the players I play with. All of your examples are fully focused on me having a singular individual experience, singing, capoeira, eating burgers, and so on. Those are things you can enjoy for yourself, regardless of the "quality" of those who are along for the experience. You can enjoy singing for the sake of it, regardless of the skill level of anyone you are singing with, likewise for capoira, or eating burgers. Sure, better partners or better burgers will help, but they're not strictly necessary. Gaming is NOT the same! It is not an isolated experience. As I have already said in a previous post, I have spent about 20 years invested in this hobby, I've done the homework and the workout, and the research, and the what have you's. Essentially, I've paid my dues, as it were. The people I play with however, have not! And that, however solipsistic you might suggest I should be, most definitely WILL have an impact on my experience, and my enjoyment of it. I have not been bemoaning my own lack of skill (in spite of your near-constant insistence on that point I might add... not gonna lie, I'm starting to take that shit a little personal over here. It's starting to get reeeaall fucking old, if you know what I mean!), I have been bemoaning the fact that I will very likely never have a group that is even remotely as amazing as the Critical Role crew. Incidentally, THAT is the analogy for the "super hot babe" in the porn example. I am not an idiot by the way, I am well aware that porn is not like real sex, and I've had enough "creative" experiences to know that just because something looks good in porn, it doesn't necessarily work out as well in real life. I know aaallll that buddy, I may be nerd but I've had sex too. The "super hot babe" is the unattainable dream, like a whole crew of incredibly talented, skilled, and invested players who are all into really deep role-playing. (Oh, and just to clarify, I am well aware that just because someone is more/less attractive doesn't mean shit regarding their sexual "prowess." Seriously, if you could tone down the condescending crap just a little, that'd be mighty appreciated.) There is no amount of work I can do on my end to make other people great at something, getting good at something comes from within and from personal effort. If I'm constantly saddled with casual gamers, there is just about nothing I can do about that. The absolute most I can hope for is to try to coax them into a direction that will provide a more enjoyable experience for me, but that will only go as far as their own predilections will allow. Also, if you're not tagging in extra people, doing crazy stunts, and hitting people with chairs when you're having sex, then I kinda feel bad for the people YOU'RE banging. Wimp!
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Post by kurtpotts on Apr 25, 2018 12:56:38 GMT -8
On the topic of people telling you you're doing it wrong because you aren't matt mercer. Tell them to watch Cool Runnings.
Just because the swiss play different than your group doesn't mean you can't finish the game your way.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Apr 25, 2018 13:14:54 GMT -8
Then have them do this in the mirror before every game.
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tappy
Journeyman Douchebag
Host
Posts: 192
Preferred Game Systems: Apoc World, Monsterhearts, L5r, Wod
Favorite Species of Monkey: Space Monkey
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HJRP 21-16
Apr 25, 2018 15:41:43 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by tappy on Apr 25, 2018 15:41:43 GMT -8
Rudealert -- at this point we are simply going to have to agree to disagree. We seem to simply have different experiences, and there is no amount of arguing that is going to change either of our own personal expiriances.
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Post by RudeAlert on Apr 25, 2018 16:27:17 GMT -8
Rudealert -- at this point we are simply going to have to agree to disagree. We seem to simply have different experiences, and there is no amount of arguing that is going to change either of our own personal expiriances. Works for me, though to be honest I'm not even sure what it is you're suggesting that we should agree to disagree about. I literally just posted how I felt about something, then you spent a bunch of posts telling me my opinion was wrong... So I guess we're agreeing to disagree on that? Alright, fine by me.
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