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Post by ironnikki on Jun 7, 2012 8:50:06 GMT -8
So, a little while ago there was a quiet request for an indie games subforum, and I'd like to see that happen. Since it hasn't yet, I'll just put this here My group and I decided to try something new a couple of weeks ago. I read some favorable reviews of Monsterhearts, a game built from the Apocalypse World system, and since the PDF was only $10 and it seemed like fun, I went ahead and bought it. After reading through it, I was sure that my group would never agree to play it, or at least to play it seriously. I was floored when they not only agreed to play it, but were enthusiastic about the idea. MH refers to itself as a story game as opposed to a role-playing game; that is, creation of an interesting story is the explicit primary objective. People may have one or more of several different objectives when they play RPGs, such as combat mastery, getting cool stuff, or screwing the party over, but story games are meant to be played with the story taking precedence over everything. I think that most HJ listeners play this way anyway, so this isn't really anything new to you guys, but I thought this might have been a bit of a stretch for my players. This game is designed specifically for teen monster dramas. It could be used for other situations, but that's kind of what it does best. The stories generated will have lots of teen drama, which almost always includes sex and violence. This is another reason why I thought it might not fit my group: I didn't think that they were really mature enough to deal with a game where sex is an important factor. Finally, it's a very rules light system, with a HUGE emphasis on player-driven play. In fact, the MC (what they call the GM,) doesn't ever roll dice, and the players roll dice much less frequently than they do in other games that I've played. The MC's role should be almost entirely reactionary, only acting if things are slowing down, or if the PCs are getting too comfortable. My purchase included the core PDF in a normal format, which was about 160 pages, as well as a landscape format that squeezed two pages on to one for easier printing. It also included PC booklets, a player reference booklet, an MC reference booklet, and a planning booklet for the MC. The booklets are all actually just one sheet of paper, folded in half vertically to make a 4 page document. Each PC chooses a skin, which is their supernatural entity, and takes the corresponding booklet. Skin choices include vampire, werewolf, mortal, witch, chosen, infernal, and several others. Your choice of skin determines your starting stats and provides you with skin specific moves. All in all, character creation takes about 5 minutes if you have the booklets printed and ready to go. The reference booklets are great, and include just about all of the important rules that you need to play. My group surprisingly loved it. This game is reliant upon the HJ mantra of "Yes, and..." as the players really have to be proactive for anyone to have any fun. Some of my players who are normally reluctant to speak up in games were shouting across the table, doing interesting things, and driving a story that I had never planned to begin with. I literally walked into the game with no idea about what was going to happen, and before I knew it, a story was unfolding before me. One character's younger sister became the odd love interest of all of the other PCs and even a few NPCs, one of the PCs began stalking an NPC for some reason and another PC caught him in the act, and another PCs parents figured out what he was and shunned him for it. Who knew that my players actually had imaginations hidden somewhere in there?! I can't wait until we get to play again, and several of my players feel the same way. I'm interested in checking out some of the other AW hacks out there, but we'll be playing MH for a little while longer. Monsterhearts, as well as several other intriguing games, can be found here or on DTRPG. There's also a preview of the book with an example of game play found here. Hyvemynd, I know that you're a huge fan of the AW system, and I've seen you mention MH before. Furthermore, I know that seeing a topic titled "Monsterhearts" will draw you like bad luck to Stork You're more familiar with AW than I am, so you can probably speak to its strengths better.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Jun 7, 2012 17:35:00 GMT -8
Hyvemynd, I know that you're a huge fan of the AW system, and I've seen you mention MH before. Furthermore, I know that seeing a topic titled "Monsterhearts" will draw you like bad luck to Stork You're more familiar with AW than I am, so you can probably speak to its strengths better. I laughed so hard when I read this that I nearly fell out of my chair, ironnikki. When I logged onto the forums today I saw the title of your thread and immediately wanted to click on it before anything else. I controlled myself though and saved your post for last. Like a kid with desert. LOL. You're absolutely right though; I love the Apocalypse World "system" and the games based on it. They're said to be "Powered by the Apocalypse", and include Monsterhearts, Dungeon World (which has a Kick Starter going on right now), and Monster of the Week (which hasn't been completely finished yet), as well as a large number of home brew and hacked settings. Unfortunately, my own Apocalypse World hasn't been going so well due to setting miscommunications, players amd MC expecting different things, short sessions, and incompatible schedules. I recently asked my group if they were switching over to Monsterhearts instead. Much like your group ironnikki, I don't know how into it they'd be. They might surprise me as I know at least one other guy watches True Blood since I keep supplying him with episodes. ;D So, I'd love to see how your game develops. Maybe some AP reports as well, if you don't mind taking the time to type them up. I'd also love to hear your group's reaction to certain rules and elements. For example: - How did they react upon learning that there were "sex moves" in Monsterhearts? There are sex moves in AW, which were not taken well by my group. Two guys won't go near them with a 10' pole, and the other guy didn't read them at all because he assumed they'd be handled in a juvenile manner because of all the profanity in the AW book. Only yesterday, after explaining that they are not "moves to have sex" but mechanical effects to represent the complicating effect sex has on a relationship did he look at them. What happened with your group? Has anyone use their sex move yet?
- How have your players reacted to the fact that you can use your Hot stat to Turn Someone On, regardless of their gender or sexual orientation? Again, I have a feeling that my players (who are all guys and would most likely all play male PCs) would never even consider using the Turn Someone On move on a male NPC. Maybe if I explained that the move was the only reliable way to get Strings (a valuable game currency) they'd try it. But I'm pretty sure I'd have to push them a bit. What happened in your game?
- Did you force your players to choose all their character elements (name, look, origin) from the provided lists or did you let them mak up their own? My players complained when I told them "No, you can't just make stuff up. You have to choose from the lists on your playbook." From my perspective, restrictions like that breed creativity. Why did you pick that name from the list? What does it say about your character? How did your players react to those limited choices?
As I said, my own game isn't doing that well so I don't know how much assistance I'll be to you, ironnikki. I've got a lot of theory and not much experience to back it up. I could provide examples of failure from my game and what I learned from it so that things run more smoothly for you. It sounds like things are going great so far though. Keep us informed!
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Post by ironnikki on Jun 8, 2012 9:07:40 GMT -8
I knew you'd be intrigued, hyvemynd! I'll be sure to update with how things play out. The first session was mostly the players getting used to having so much narrative power at their command, but they seemed pretty comfortable with it by the end of the game. I'm about to go out of town for a week, so we won't get to play again until a couple weeks from now at the earliest, unfortunately.
One of my players explicitly went out of his way to use his sex move, and he managed to do it without giggling constantly (I was impressed). He was playing The Vampire, and was able to get into a bar, attach himself to a group of young women, and talk himself and them into an exclusive club downtown. He ended up taking one home, and once there, used his sex move to deny her and gain a string on her. He then proceeded to tie her up in his basement for a source of food. This was the last bit of the session that we got to play, so we haven't yet explored what consequences this will have, but it will certainly come up in the next game. The other players don't appear to be too squeamish about the presence of sex moves, but I'm not sure yet if they'll take advantage of them or not. This is something that we haven't really explored yet. More to come! I did not force them to choose elements from the provided list, but I did encourage them to do so. I found that most of my players were content to pick something from the lists, except for names. All of their origin stories were based on one of the provided origins. I didn't ask them as much about their eyes as the book suggests, so that might be something we start off with next time.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Jun 10, 2012 18:38:05 GMT -8
I may have convinced my players to shelve our Apocalypse World game in favor of Monsterhearts. ;D I love how AW is written and the way the game *seems* like it would play, but I just suck at MCing it. I think it is a game that I would need to play in (possibly a few times) before I can run it successfully. He was playing The Vampire, and was able to get into a bar, attach himself to a group of young women, and talk himself and them into an exclusive club downtown. He ended up taking one home, and once there, used his sex move to deny her and gain a string on her. Yeah. The Vampire's sex move is *not* having sex. It's all about leading the other person on, hinting that you may just give them what they want this time, if they're good. The other person has to want you, bad, and you turn them down. It doesn't really count if you don't have sex with someone who wouldn't sleep with you in the first place. LOL. Like I mention in the sandbox thread, it's your responsibility as MC to make the Vampire's life not boring because of this sex move. The player chose this Skin, in part, because they thought this move was interesting or would lead to interesting choices in play. So put them into positions where *not* having sex with someone will have dramatic consequences. For example, have an attractive NPC blatantly come on to the Vampire in the hallway, in front of other students, not so subtly hinting that their parents are out of town for the night and they should come over. The next day the captain of the football team approaches the Vampire. "Yo bro. You tap that last night or what?" If the Vampire says no, then "Why the hell not? What's wrong? Your dick don't work or something? You a fag, bro?" Now the Vampire player has to deal with they whole school questioning his sexuality. What will he do? Try to actually sleep with the girl again to prove he's not gay? Good luck with that, since you've already turned her down when she offered herself up to you on a silver platter. On the flip side, if the Vampire lies and says yes, then "Nice one bro. I knew that slut was looser than an old gym sock. I bet if I ask nicely, she'll do the whole football team. At the same time. Gang bang for the win!" Now the Vampire's lie has caused the whole school to label that poor girl a slut when they didn't even sleep together. Make her life a living hell; profanity scrawled on her locker, other guys being way too sexually aggressive towards her, late night phone calls, the whole 9 yards. And make sure that the Vampire sees all of it. Maybe the Vampire won't do anything about that (being a true monster), but maybe he'll come to her defense. Maybe they start dating or develop some kind of romantic relationship. So why won't he sleep with her then? Does he think she's ugly? That she's fat? Is he sleeping with other girls instead of her? Maybe he really *is* gay after all. Eventually she'll finally confront him, possibly even crying. "You say you like me, but you don't act like it. *Show* me that you like me!" What will he do now? The Storyteller in our old Vampire: the Requiem game did something similar to me. My PC was trying to build up a herd of girls so I wouldn't have to go out hunting for food every night. One of the girls really took a fancy to my PC and offered herself to him after a couple of dates. The Storyteller threw me a huge wrench though; the girl was a virgin. I had two choices. a) Turn her down and risk breaking her right then and there. She'd built up the courage to do this and telling her no would probably shatter her, destroying the hard work I'd put into getting to this point. Or I could b) go through with it and set myself up for a whole lot of trouble later. My PC was trying to do the same thing with a few other NPCs, and if this girl saw me with other women (like her roommate who I was also working on) shit would hit the fan real hard. I loved every second of it. ;D
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Post by ironnikki on Jun 18, 2012 7:12:51 GMT -8
One of the things that I love about MH so far is that it gives the MC, and the players, plenty of material to screw with each other with. It's incredibly easy to mess with each other's heads, which is great in moderation. Things stop being fun when personal issues start to come into play!
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Jun 19, 2012 22:56:49 GMT -8
So last night was session 0.5 of my own Monsterhearts Skype game. It wasn't really a first session because all we did was talk about the player's characters (one guy kept switching his Skin) and a bit of the setting. We haven't set up a homeroom seating chart or followed the PCs around for a "normal" day yet. I think my players are still grappling with the amount of control they have over the setting. It's almost entirely player driven and the suggestions and options in the Skin books (character sheet) are really meant to get the players to ask questions about their characters and the setting rather than actually provide answers. Monsterhearts is very much a game where MC's answer to almost any player question is going to be "I don't know. *You* tell me." The PCs we have are as follows: - Victoria the Chosen (think Buffy) - lives with her single dad in the poor part of town. She missed the entirety of 10th grade because she was away for a year doing "Chosen stuff". We still have to find out where exactly Victoria went, what that "Chosen stuff" was, if it was successful, who she met, what she learned, and (most importantly) what followed her back home. Also, what happened to mom? Is she still around? Does anyone know that Victoria is a Chosen? Who "chose" her, and for what?
- Mara the Ghoul (think Megan Fox in Jennifer's Body) - lives with both parents in a big house in the good part of town. She was resurrected as a ghoul (we don't know how, why, or by whom yet) who now has a hunger for flesh. No one knows she's a ghoul, except for Catherine, who watched her die (we also don't know the how or why of Mara's death yet).
- Catherine the Ghost - who was killed by her sexually abusive father. We don't know where she lives, if her mother is still around, or even the circumstances of her death yet. We also don't know why she still goes to school either. We do know that she saw Mara die and that she has crept into Mara's room several time to watch her sleeping friend. Whether that happened before their deaths, after their death, or both has yet to be determined.
The players decided that they were all childhood friends who had drifted apart slightly in high school. Both Mara and Catherine's death occurred while Victoria was away for a year, so the Chosen has no idea her friends are now a flesh eating Ghoul and a Ghost. So like I said, the options presented on the character sheets are mostly to get the players thinking and to create questions to be answered during play. For example, the guy playing Mara chose "resurrected" as her origin. What does that mean? All that tells us is that Mara died, and that someone or something brought her back. Who brought her back? How? Why? The game setting doesn't tell us what a ghoul is or how one is made, because there is essentially no setting other than what the players decide is true. If the player comes up with a cool story about how Mara was resurrected, then *BAM* that's now how ghouls are made. At one point the guy playing the Ghost hit me with a barrage of questions. "Can other people see me? Would I go to school? Can I hold things?" All good questions. My answer to all of them was "You tell me." It kind of threw him for a loop, since most players, myself included, are more used to the GM saying "Here's the world and here's how everything works." Monsterhearts (and Apocalypse World) are the exact opposite of that. The players make up all the facts and the MC just kind of fills in the little gaps.
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Post by ironnikki on Jun 20, 2012 6:39:53 GMT -8
I loved the look on my player's face when I answered his questions with more of my own.
"So, if I'm a vampire, can I go out in the sunlight?" "I don't know. Can you?" "Er... what?"
Sounds like you've got plenty of strings to pull and chains to yank!
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