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Post by kwickpick on Nov 27, 2012 11:48:09 GMT -8
I have recently begun to run my weekly group through a Deadlands campaign. Before this, none of us had any experience with the Savage Worlds system. We just realized how deadly the combat system is last week. Any tips and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks everyone
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Post by jazzisblues on Nov 27, 2012 12:01:25 GMT -8
Welcome to Savage Worlds, and enjoy the Koolaid.
Savage combat can be very deadly. JiB's short rules for SW combat go thusly,
1. Magic trumps ranged combat. 2. Ranged combat trumps melee combat 3. Melee combat is deadly if you use all of the rules 4. Bad guys need to be just as smart and use all of the rules to their advantage too. 5. If the good guys don't think to use things like cover and concealment a. kill them, they'll learn. b. be nice and explain
Overriding rule: Exploding dice can kill you instantly, be generous with the bennies.
Just my off the top of my head thoughts,
JiB
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Post by shadrack on Nov 27, 2012 12:21:11 GMT -8
I agree with JiB
and would add, as an addendum:
encourage the benny economy. The more those things are flying the better for all.
It may feel like you're flooding the market for a bit, but try to get your players spending them. You may need to be moving those things out like you're the fed for a bit.
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Post by kwickpick on Nov 27, 2012 12:24:54 GMT -8
I am already thinking about moving the game that I run for the children of the players in my group from D&D 2 ed (which got switched to 2nd ed when we grew tired of 4th ed) to a fantasy Savage World. I will have to come up with a few house rules to make it a little less deadly for the kids. I can hear the chanting now, "one of us, one of us, one of us..."
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HyveMynd
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Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
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Post by HyveMynd on Nov 27, 2012 17:19:41 GMT -8
I can hear the chanting now, "one of us, one of us, one of us..." Nah.That's actually me screaming "Nooooooooooooooo!" at the top of my lungs from the roof of Osaka Castle as yet another player falls to the Savage Worlds epidemic. Soon it's just going to be me battling my way through an army of Bennie-addicted gamers who slowly chant "Fast. Furious. Fun." as they stalk me down the halls of empty convention centers through the scattered and drifting pages of all the now OOP non- SW RPG books. Hmm... That'd actually make a decent con game set up. Dibs! Seriously though, I like deadly systems. When matched with an appropriate setting, mind you. I like combat to have consequences, and I like my players/characters to try alternate methods of problem solving rather than reaching for their guns/swords first, each and every time. So while JiB has certainly given you good advice and I would certainly make the players aware of all the things they (and the bad guys) can do in combat, I would also just let the players learn things the hard way. Savagedaddy has a thread about doing cartoons in Savage Worlds. Rather than messing about with the system mechanics, you could just make damage less damaging. If that makes sense. Take a page from D&D Next and only count damage as real physical "wounds" when the character would take his/her fourth (i.e. drop to zero hit points). Before that it's just a bit of bruising, being winded, loosing your edge, etc. The characters would still take penalties to rolls as usual, but they'd be easier to recover from as they're not "real" damage. Or you could just give the characters easier access to healing magic. Damage isn't as damaging when you can clear it up faster.
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Post by ericfromnj on Nov 27, 2012 17:50:58 GMT -8
3. Melee combat is deadly if you use all of the rules JiB, do you mean if someone makes a choice to use all the rules or are there rules people tend to overlook? I am curious because as I run more Savage Worlds(I have joined the Explorer's Society and started petitioning my local game store), the more I want to make sure I am not skipping things.
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Post by shadrack on Nov 28, 2012 6:15:14 GMT -8
I will let JiB speak for himself, but my take on his comment was to encourage you to use the tactics (and thus combat rules) available to you. Often, in the course of plotting out the game, combat tactics can fall by the wayside. As well as particular encounter prep (sheepishly raises hand).
Attacking your players with cultists? gang up on those bad boys. That'll teach 'em to not jump in the middle of a bunch of extras.
Use those Gatling guns (if the situation warrants it), burst fire, etc.
Of course the bartender has a sawed-off shotgun, use it!
Basically, just run the NPCs intelligently. Give some consideration to layout, how they would approach a situation, etc.
oh, if you really want to F with your players... and they are travelling across the plains, attack them with a few Jackalopes.
you may think I'm kidding, but read that description.
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Post by savagedaddy on Nov 28, 2012 7:28:02 GMT -8
I am already thinking about moving the game that I run for the children of the players in my group from D&D 2 ed (which got switched to 2nd ed when we grew tired of 4th ed) to a fantasy Savage World. I will have to come up with a few house rules to make it a little less deadly for the kids. I can hear the chanting now, "one of us, one of us, one of us..." If you want to eliminate the possibility of a TPK, you could use the "Heroes Never Die" setting rule (SWD pg. 94). For a fresh setting without the D&D hullabaloo, you may want to take a look at Legends of Steel? It is Sword & Sorcery, not Fantasy; basically Conan verses Lord of the Rings. Legends of Steel is fun to play because of the tongue-in cheek approach and 'the cheese'. To give you an idea, the setting includes a Edge for skank-mail Sexy armor (new) Requirements: Novice, Attractive Go ahead, have your character run around in a chain mail bikini, or bare- chested with just a loincloth, not only will they be immune to the elements- but they are considered armored in chain mail (+2) for game purposes. But once they cover up, all bonuses are lost. At any rate, good luck with the kidies. I'd love to hear what happens
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Post by ericfromnj on Nov 28, 2012 7:31:27 GMT -8
I will let JiB speak for himself, but my take on his comment was to encourage you to use the tactics (and thus combat rules) available to you. Often, in the course of plotting out the game, combat tactics can fall by the wayside. As well as particular encounter prep (sheepishly raises hand). Attacking your players with cultists? gang up on those bad boys. That'll teach 'em to not jump in the middle of a bunch of extras. Use those Gatling guns (if the situation warrants it), burst fire, etc. Of course the bartender has a sawed-off shotgun, use it! Basically, just run the NPCs intelligently. Give some consideration to layout, how they would approach a situation, etc. you may think I'm kidding, but read that description. Ah, got it. When I ran my Solomon Kane one shot I had placemats that had the basics on one side and combat maneuvers on the other. I kept one for myself to make sure I used that. Hordes of zombies gang up really quick...
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Post by jazzisblues on Nov 28, 2012 7:38:02 GMT -8
Yes you have the essence of it. This more comes back to my assertion that powerful bad guys don't get to be powerful bad guys by being stupid, than it does rules so much. But basically any rule that the pc's can use to their advantage, the bad guys can use to theirs. This really must be used with caution because there's a trap involved. I know what's going on in the game and I know the pc's and how they think, if I'm not careful I can inadvertently use that against them.
A phrase that comes up in my campaign notes a LOT is, "What does (bad guy x) actually know about what just happened?" I try to be very honest.
It is also important for bad guys to play their disads as much as it is for the pc's. If I write a bad guy that's got the overconfident hindrance he needs to play that way. Just like the pc's it's a clue how to play him and how to portray him.
I also keep in mind that ultimately the pc's are supposed to win. Not without some pain and suffering, but they should win.
Cheers,
JiB
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Post by ericfromnj on Nov 28, 2012 7:43:44 GMT -8
I also keep in mind that ultimately the pc's are supposed to win. Not without some pain and suffering, but they should win. Cheers, JiB Absolutely. PCs are the rock stars. They have their "Behind the Music" moments, but they are going to ROCK!
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Post by shadrack on Nov 28, 2012 13:10:47 GMT -8
jackalopes man, they will remember that fight forever.
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Post by jazzisblues on Nov 28, 2012 23:08:24 GMT -8
jackalopes man, they will remember that fight forever. "Watch out for stobor!" "WTF is a stobor?" *shrugs* "Might want to find that out" Almost guaranteed to make the pc's jumpier than a cat in a room full of rocking chairs. JiB
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Post by kwickpick on Dec 3, 2012 20:01:16 GMT -8
Thanks everyone for all of the input. I am working on some house rules to make combat a little less deadly, especially when I GM the kids. I am all for deadly combat, but I want to see the fate chips being used as more than hit points. If I wanted to play in an attrition system, I would still be playing D&D.
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Post by jazzisblues on Dec 4, 2012 6:46:26 GMT -8
Thanks everyone for all of the input. I am working on some house rules to make combat a little less deadly, especially when I GM the kids. I am all for deadly combat, but I want to see the fate chips being used as more than hit points. If I wanted to play in an attrition system, I would still be playing D&D. JiB's Rules for Savage Worlds 1. A full benny cup at the end of the session means a fun game. 2. If I'm throwing bennies out they will be more likely to use them for more than hit points. 3. If I put them in non-combat situations where things need to work out they will be more likely to use bennies for things other than hit points. For kids, throw out the concept of wounds and make wounds just be shaken. This works really well for kids games particularly if you want a "cartoonish" feel. JiB
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