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Post by gina on Jul 22, 2013 17:31:10 GMT -8
stork man, I love you (as much as someone can love someone they only know as a disembodied voice on the internet, and not in that way) but I think you and I have different viewpoints when it comes to GMing. Over the past couple episodes I've repeatedly heard you mention how the players are working against the GM, or are trying to outsmart the GM. As you put it, and I'm paraphrasing here, "the GM sets up the world/situation, and the players try to find ways to get around the obstacles the GM has set up". I fundamentally disagree with that viewpoint, for certain types of games. All right. I've plugged my Kumbaya-singing, granola-eating, macrame-weaving games enough for one post. I really do hope to rope you guys into playing at Gateway 2013 so you can see all this stuff in action. Preach it brother. JiB Was in the chat room for that bi'ness and was trying to say the same thing (not as eloquently on the fly). Agree with Stu on this one (again, there was a theme that night). Setting up conflict for interesting story/narrative is *not* you vs. them imo. And, Hyve? You will, they will, everyone will embrace, it'll be awesome! Your preaching is breaking through to the other side where others (including mine) have no comprende'd, senor. I sense a disturbance in the force, and it'll be my-god-it's-full-of-stars. \m/ \m/
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nanoboy
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 142
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Post by nanoboy on Jul 22, 2013 17:56:43 GMT -8
I think that the word that Stork was looking for was "conflict." The inherent tension between the players (who play the heroes and protagonists) and the GM (who plays the villains, antagonists, and everyone else) generates conflict. Now, that conflict is something that helps to generate stories. If a player decides he's going to try and overcome the GM's obstacles, great.
I don't think that Stork was exalting or even condoning the adversarial GM, something that is most often part of a bad gaming group.
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Post by Forresst on Jul 22, 2013 18:04:26 GMT -8
Hey, I went a little more normal as I got thrown. I made a snake instead and just killed him.
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
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Post by sbloyd on Jul 22, 2013 18:20:42 GMT -8
I think part of it is stork's pedigree. As I understand it, stork's formative gaming years were in the heyday of first Ed advanced d&d, where the modules tended towards being gygaxian puzzle filled death traps for the players to solve and/or survive - just look at Queen of the Demonweb Pits or Tomb of Horrors. Show us on the doll where the bad DM touched you, stork.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
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Post by HyveMynd on Jul 22, 2013 18:27:12 GMT -8
I don't think that Stork was exalting or even condoning the adversarial GM, something that is most often part of a bad gaming group. You're right, nanoboy. And I'm not saying that stork was exalting/condoning adversarial GMing. What I am saying is that recently I've heard a lot of statements that assume the GM has planned out the situation/obstacle ahead of time. That is not always the case. There are games that specifically instruct the GM to not prepare anything. The situations, obstacles, and NPCs are all made up on the spot as needed, in response to player action. So I am taking a bit of an issue with the idea that the GM can be "outsmarted", as in some games the GM is discovering what's going on in the game right along with the players. Hey, I went a little more normal as I got thrown. I made a snake instead and just killed him. True. But I thought the original plan was to flatten him with a flying walrus. And thanks gina. I'll break through and turn all the HJs hosts into granola-munching, ponytail-wearing, drum circle-playing hippie gamers yet!
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maxinstuff
Supporter
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Post by maxinstuff on Jul 22, 2013 18:35:29 GMT -8
I don't think that Stork was exalting or even condoning the adversarial GM, something that is most often part of a bad gaming group. You're right, nanoboy. And I'm not saying that stork was exalting/condoning adversarial GMing. What I am saying is that recently I've heard a lot of statements that assume the GM has planned out the situation/obstacle ahead of time. That is not always the case. There are games that specifically instruct the GM to not prepare anything. The situations, obstacles, and NPCs are all made up on the spot as needed, in response to player action. So I am taking a bit of an issue with the idea that the GM can be "outsmarted", as in some games the GM is discovering what's going on in the game right along with the players. Hey, I went a little more normal as I got thrown. I made a snake instead and just killed him. True. But I thought the original plan was to flatten him with a flying walrus. And thanks gina. I'll break through and turn all the HJs hosts into granola-munching, ponytail-wearing, drum circle-playing hippie gamers yet! I dunno HyveMynd - if you keep running adventures in Dungeon World like the one you did at Jackercon then the 'hippy' tag might need to be removed.
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Post by Stu Venable on Jul 22, 2013 19:02:23 GMT -8
This is how I prep gun-toting, red-meat-eating, SUV-driving non-hippy games too.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
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Post by HyveMynd on Jul 22, 2013 19:08:27 GMT -8
I dunno HyveMynd - if you keep running adventures in Dungeon World like the one you did at Jackercon then the 'hippy' tag might need to be removed. True. Of the AW-based games I am familiar with, Dungeon World can be prepped/run most like a traditional RPG. Grab a published module, read through it, convert the monsters and NPCs to Dungeon World stats (or reskin something from the Bestiary), create some Custom Moves to cover traps and effects, and hey presto! You've got yourself a Dungeon World scenario. Which is exactly what I did for the Lost Temple-City of Xtylos JackerCon game. *gasp* Do I have to turn in my macrame knitting needles now?
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maxinstuff
Supporter
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Post by maxinstuff on Jul 22, 2013 19:08:35 GMT -8
Prep is for pussies (and hippies, fuck them too).
The only prep I need is a bottle of jack and a tomahawk. The tomahawk is for unruly players, the jack is for me, and the prep is for FUCKING PUSSIES.
*continues to gently stoke up the campfire with penis*
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maxinstuff
Supporter
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Post by maxinstuff on Jul 22, 2013 19:15:50 GMT -8
Which is exactly what I did for the Lost Temple-City of Xtylos JackerCon game. *gasp* Do I have to turn in my macrame knitting needles now? No. Knitting is for bad-asses. In fact, you should have the villain in your next game be sitting in his chair knitting the last few stiches of a pair of socks when the heroes walk in. He holds his hand up and says "STOP - One second please." Knits the last few stiches. Puts on new socks. Puts boots back on. Roll initiative. Then the villain will have NEW SOCK FEELING. That shit is at least a +1 to AC. By the way, I just bought some new socks. New socks are the shit.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
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Post by HyveMynd on Jul 22, 2013 20:00:03 GMT -8
This is how I prep gun-toting, red-meat-eating, SUV-driving non-hippy games too. Hey man. Keep your red meat away from my tofu. Animals are people, too. Don't eat them, love them, man. I realize that lots of people prep games this way, regardless of whether they're going to be running a trad or indie game. Or it's possible that you're secretly a hippie, Stu Venable.
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Post by Kainguru on Jul 22, 2013 20:07:20 GMT -8
Tomb of Horrors was SUPPOSED to be an endgame killem all TOURNAMENT module. Says on the front. Says it on the back. Says it in the introduction. Which bit escaped people about this one module? It's like getting pissed you got lung cancer from smoking 60/day and complaining no one warned you (despite the fuck off big warming labels). Queen of the Demon Web Pits wasn't even written by Gygax. Hommlet was and so was descent into the depths and barrier peaks - no one bitches about them being killer modules. Better a killer module than a pussy arsed railroad like Dragonlance. Aaron
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dnddad
Journeyman Douchebag
They're bullywugs aren't they Pat...
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Post by dnddad on Jul 22, 2013 20:24:01 GMT -8
Wow... I make my first email, and specifically mention the lack of Claire and she shows up. I give up due to lack of relevancy.
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Post by Forresst on Jul 22, 2013 20:28:24 GMT -8
True. But I thought the original plan was to flatten him with a flying walrus. It WAS! But I kinda felt bad about being the one with all the weird ideas. I didn't want to be the showboat, you know? Every time I opened my mouth, both you and DT would let your heads fall (sometimes in unison) and laugh for a second. I'm kinda proud of "so you take 5 damage as a javelin sticks in your side." "well, I pull it out and throw it back."
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maxinstuff
Supporter
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hjrp1007
Jul 22, 2013 20:39:11 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by maxinstuff on Jul 22, 2013 20:39:11 GMT -8
Wow... I make my first email, and specifically mention the lack of Claire and she shows up. I give up due to lack of relevancy. No don't! All signs point to you being some sort of wizard.
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