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Post by RudeAlert on May 23, 2017 18:57:34 GMT -8
Stu Venable Are you planning on talking about the whole passive players problem on the podcast? After all those years of listening to you guys give advice and talk about what makes a good game/character, it would be really interesting to hear what those same people have to say when THEY are in the frying pan.
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Post by Stu Venable on May 24, 2017 7:12:55 GMT -8
We already had that conversation. But when one (or some) of the players are on the Friday show, we can certainly discuss it.
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Post by sovereigncitizenkane on May 27, 2017 20:53:22 GMT -8
Maybe we'll finally figure out if Kimi has Herd 3 or Herd 1
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Post by Stu Venable on Jul 4, 2017 21:53:48 GMT -8
Regarding Paul Morphy, the Toreador Primogen and Seneschal, his "art" is strategy, which I think would be a scary thing for the right hand of the Prince.
For those who don't know, Morphy is considered the de facto chess champion of his time (no such organized events existed then). He certainly played on a Grand Master level, and his ability to calcuate many, many moves ahead might translate well in the Camarilla. And being that he's well over 200 years old at this point means he's seen many vampiric social moves play out.
He may not be able to calculate every possible ploy by a vampire (since real live has far more permutations than a chess board), but his experience, paired with his calculating prowess would make him a formidable foe.
I'm trying to think of a way to refect this, given that I definitely DON'T have his chess prowess or life experience, but also want to be fair to the players.
I'm definitely looking for input on this.
Once I introduce the Tremere Primogen (who is also Miroslav's love), the party might see an opening to exploit. While Morphy is definitely an able Seneschal, the Tremere Primogen will eventually be seen as the true power behind the throne. Miroslav is, after all, a butt ugly Nosferatu with a beautiful magess at his side, seemingly devoted to him.
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sbloyd
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Post by sbloyd on Jul 5, 2017 6:02:24 GMT -8
Besides, well, cheating a little on his behalf, you could just do more of what you do already - having the wheels turn in the background while things happen with the PCs - only skew things a little better in Morphy's favor. Let him benefit from knowledge he might not otherwise have as "planning".
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Post by RudeAlert on Jul 5, 2017 11:44:43 GMT -8
I can't help but think of Morphy as ultimately becoming the real power behind the throne if he's that good at strategy. After all, the King never goes out in a dangerous position, he lets all the other pieces do that for him.
As for how to portray his inhuman cunning and strategy, well I kind of agree that a little "cheating" here and there, sprinkled subtly, can accomplish a great deal. As has been discussed on the podcast before, faking intelligence greater than your own is nearly impossible.
There are a few cheap tricks I know, but they only apply to direct interaction.
-Never act surprised when someone presents you with new information. However new or esoteric it might be, always act as if it was the most obvious thing in the world and totally old news, barely even worthy of talking about. Don't try to add more to the info (since you probably don't have anything to add anyway) just act as if you already knew about it and let the other person say whatever they were saying, don't interrupt them though since you do want to hear what they have to say. If you need to goad them into revealing a little more, perhaps ask them just how much they know about this issue, you know, just so you know how much they've caught up with you of course.
-If someone tries to oppose anything you said, specifically a position you hold, always try to put them on the defensive. Turn things around so THEY have to defend their position, even if they were only attacking yours. Never offer anything to defend your position, just challenge them on theirs and then put the burden of proof on them. (This is a really cheap trick, and also a really bad debating approach but when you're good enough at it, it's easy enough to make people fall for it pretty much every time.) The real trick to this is to keep challenging the other person's rebuttal until they are pushed to the inevitable point where they don't even know what to say anymore. It's kind of like a grown up version of children just asking "why?" over and over when you try to explain something to them until you reach an almost ludicrous existential level of self-doubt and you have no answer other than "Cuz... It just is!" which in adult conversations doesn't usually hold as much weight. And of course the end result of this trick is that when the other person inevitably reaches that level you basically just go "Aha! So you don't really know what you're talking about then, so that means I'm right." It's cheap and kinda lazy, but when done well people will fall for it pretty often.
-The preacher/politician trick: never show any doubt. Always speak with absolute certainty and clarity. Act and speak with absolute confidence at all times, never show any hints of uncertainty or even openness to divergence. As flawed as it may be, the human tendency to ascribe more credibility to someone who speaks with great confidence can usually be relied upon to work its magic even if the statements being made are actually pretty dumb (though for the sake of portraying this character, dumb statements should be avoided at all cost).
-The Vetinari approach: (Lord Vetinari is one of the most awesome characters in the Discworld series of novels, and would make an absolutely ruthlessly effective and badass vampire prince) When putting the pressure on people, give them just enough info for them to imagine the depth of your true knowledge and then let them do most of the talking, just sit/stand quietly and calmly while giving them your undivided attention, make sure they definitely feel the heat of your quiet and intense attention, then just let them talk themselves into a corner. It may not always work but it's very entertaining when it does.
Combining the above tricks into a seamless performance should give the players a strong enough sense that Morphy is definitely above their level, hopefully intimidatingly so.
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Post by cursedmonkey on Jul 21, 2017 8:25:33 GMT -8
The new Elysium is the gaslight opera? The same that saw the birth of the asbestos dress because they were convinced it was a trap?
Since it is controlled by a council that includes the wife of late shiny-pants and the mega-witch that seems like a very bad idea
I fact, holding Elysium on a property you do not own is...questionnable?
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Jul 21, 2017 15:51:27 GMT -8
It's happened before when your prince has to lay down some law but don't want to be predictable to a present danger. There's a good example of this at the beginning of the Bloodlines game.
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Post by Starteller on Aug 8, 2017 13:41:36 GMT -8
Maybe we'll finally figure out if Kimi has Herd 3 or Herd 1 We need to see ALL their sheets -Honorable Starteller, J.D.
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Post by akavidar on Aug 8, 2017 17:24:20 GMT -8
Regarding Paul Morphy, the Toreador Primogen and Seneschal, his "art" is strategy, which I think would be a scary thing for the right hand of the Prince. For those who don't know, Morphy is considered the de facto chess champion of his time (no such organized events existed then). He certainly played on a Grand Master level, and his ability to calcuate many, many moves ahead might translate well in the Camarilla. And being that he's well over 200 years old at this point means he's seen many vampiric social moves play out. He may not be able to calculate every possible ploy by a vampire (since real live has far more permutations than a chess board), but his experience, paired with his calculating prowess would make him a formidable foe. I'm trying to think of a way to refect this, given that I definitely DON'T have his chess prowess or life experience, but also want to be fair to the players. I'm definitely looking for input on this. Once I introduce the Tremere Primogen (who is also Miroslav's love), the party might see an opening to exploit. While Morphy is definitely an able Seneschal, the Tremere Primogen will eventually be seen as the true power behind the throne. Miroslav is, after all, a butt ugly Nosferatu with a beautiful magess at his side, seemingly devoted to him. Did Morphy predict Riley's action just before Elysium? Or was he as surprised as we were?
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Post by Wakefield on Aug 9, 2017 9:10:37 GMT -8
Another good opportunity to demonstrate this would be to place Riley in a position where she needs to read Morphy's mind (if that's possible) and have the skimmed-off thoughts demonstrate both an ability to predict logical next steps for the characters AND success at predicting past events on the Mote and mainland. Perhaps he lets Riley in just enough to know with whom she's dealing. I think RudeAlert has the right strategies down to a T, especially about Morphy never acting surprised. Speaking of exhibiting surprise, I remember Morphy at least feigning surprise last episode at Adrienne's decision to sign a contract with the Fae. A Bruce Wayne or Percy Blakeney (Scarlet Pimpernel) approach of playing the dunderhead aristocrat (or, here, tunnel-vision chess obsessor?) could be a good strategy, too, with Morphy letting that mask crack on the occasions he decides to intimidate.
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Post by Starteller on Aug 9, 2017 9:48:00 GMT -8
Another good opportunity to demonstrate this would be to place Riley in a position where she needs to read Morphy's mind That's one thing the GM forgot to roll People with the skill Awareness or something similar for other supernatural can roll to see someone is reading their mind Awareness even show that "Someone’s In My Head" can be a specialty p.101 Stu Venable
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Post by RudeAlert on Aug 9, 2017 15:38:08 GMT -8
Another good opportunity to demonstrate this would be to place Riley in a position where she needs to read Morphy's mind (if that's possible) and have the skimmed-off thoughts demonstrate both an ability to predict logical next steps for the characters AND success at predicting past events on the Mote and mainland. Perhaps he lets Riley in just enough to know with whom she's dealing. I frikin love this! It would be even better if it somehow turned out that Morphy engineered the situation that led to Riley having to read his mind in the first place, just so he could show her what they're up against. Maybe have his mind be so complex and fast that it's almost overwhelming to Riley, and of course, he's entirely aware of her intrusion the entire time, and not the least bit surprised or taken unawares by it. Actually, when she's rummaging around in there it would quickly be obvious to her that he planned this all along, and is possibly only showing her what he wants her to see. I'm not sure how that would work rules-wise, but hell it's good enough to be worth just winging it for effect. Oooohhhhh!!!! This NPC could be reaaally fun. Mwahahahahaha!
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Post by Stu Venable on Aug 9, 2017 19:06:45 GMT -8
I'll see if I can engineer this next session. Morphy is a Toreador as well. I wonder if there's some way he could fill her mind with chess permutations or something...
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Post by RudeAlert on Aug 10, 2017 11:25:18 GMT -8
I'll see if I can engineer this next session. Morphy is a Toreador as well. I wonder if there's some way he could fill her mind with chess permutations or something... Do you have the Vampire the Requiem corebook? If so, there is a small sidebar labeled " Clash of Wills" that kind of gives rules that could be used as a basis for some sort of houserule for when a vampire with Auspex reads the mind of another vampire with Auspex (which, by the way, should totally be more interesting than just "you do it just like usual" because that really would feel like a missed opportunity). For reference:In VtR 1st Ed. it's on page 119. In VtR 2nd Ed. it's on page 125-126.
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