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Post by uselesstriviaman on Feb 24, 2016 7:09:31 GMT -8
I believe the books series that Bill alluded to where the characters are transported to a fantastic land as their characters is "The Guardians of the Flame" series by Joel Rosenberg, Book 1 is "The Sleeping Dragon". It is an excellent read in my opinion. If I am incorrect Bill and this was not the series you were thinking of my apologies, but I still recommend this series if the premise sounded intriguing to any who were listening. I was nodding my head excitedly as Bill described the death of Jason/Einar Lightfingers. The Guardians of the Flame series was wonderful. And to avoid confusion, the author was Joel Rosenberg, not Joel C. Rosenberg the evangelical activist. (I ain't posting any links to that guy's works.)
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Post by Probie Tim on Feb 24, 2016 7:54:21 GMT -8
Probie Tim was the powered by the Apocalypse "hack" you played run by or created by Tobias Strauss? Created by; it was run by a girl whose name I can't recommend. Tobias was sitting next to her, observing. If you're familiar with that "hack", what was missing in it compared to a "finished" PbtA game?
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tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
Posts: 1,438
Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
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Post by tomes on Feb 24, 2016 11:36:19 GMT -8
Probie Tim was the powered by the Apocalypse "hack" you played run by or created by Tobias Strauss? Created by; it was run by a girl whose name I can't remember. Tobias was sitting next to her, observing. Stephanie Bryant ran Tobias' game. And Tobias was running her game (Threadbare). At least during this con.
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Post by Probie Tim on Feb 24, 2016 11:46:31 GMT -8
Created by; it was run by a girl whose name I can't recommend. Tobias was sitting next to her, observing. Stephanie Bryant ran Tobias' game. And Tobias was running her game (Threadbare). At least during this con. Oh, hell, I meant "remember", not "recommend". It was supposed to be "a girl whose name I can't remember". That's a very unfortunate mistype, entirely unintended, and I would totally recommend Stephanie. She was a good GM and rolled with everything Stork, Willh, and I threw at her.
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tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
Posts: 1,438
Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
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Post by tomes on Feb 24, 2016 12:02:08 GMT -8
You could edit the post. :-) I just did on mine. Whitewashing...
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Feb 24, 2016 12:20:55 GMT -8
I can't recommend that.
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Post by Kenigma23 on Feb 24, 2016 13:37:48 GMT -8
On Delta Green: I think of it as a modern take on CoC. Also there is more “premise” to the game in the form of reason/way for the characters to be together. Mainly some shadow organization has assembled the PCs together and pointed them at the weird. It can also act as a camping structure. Pulling out guns in Delta Green is generally about as successful as pulling out guns in CoC in my experience (cultists not withstanding). As an aside, I’ve come to like the Gumshoe system (Trail of Cthulhu) for my CoC gaming. The new Delta Green Kickstarter will have a Gumshoe version that takes place in the 60s. For a take on CoC where the players are more effective you could adapt Gumshoe’s Night’s Black Agents very easily to a modern conspiracy driven CoC-type game. All the players would be WAY more effective since each one of them is some variation on James Bond, Jason Bourne or Jack Bauer…
Speaking of Kickstarters… I’d say overall I’ve had good luck with them. I backed the new Delta Green, which has yet to deliver, but I have no reason to doubt them. Nearly all the others have delivered or I have high confidence they will. There have been a couple of duds, but with most of those I didn’t invest heavily ($15-35) so the lost is more emotional (i.e. I feel like I got ripped off) than financial (who will I eat!!?) Personally I think Kickstarter has been great for reviving niche markets like RPGs and board games as well as properties and techs that may not have seen the light of day. I do feel like Kickstarter plays down the risk element though. Whenever I recommend something on Kickstarter I try to remind them of the implicit “Caveat Emptor” with anything on the site.
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Post by joecrak on Feb 24, 2016 13:49:50 GMT -8
Probie Tim was the powered by the Apocalypse "hack" you played run by or created by Tobias Strauss? Created by; it was run by a girl whose name I can't recommend. Tobias was sitting next to her, observing. If you're familiar with that "hack", what was missing in it compared to a "finished" PbtA game? I figured you meant remember, you have yet to come off as one of the willing to be mean hosts. Okay. as to your Question. I had a bunch typed out on my phone, then lost it, so i decided to wait til I get home. I start this off saying, I didn't play test the game. I saw it listed, thought it sounded neat, but like a terrible idea for a PbtA game. The reasons, Scooby-Do, Shaggy, and pretty much all Hanna-Barbara characters don't change. From their debut, they have been pretty much the same. Only thing that may have changed was the sensibilities in writing, but Shaggy is pretty much the same as he's always been. This is a core conceit for PbtA games, your character will grow and change, they are supposed to at least. Whether through relationships building or breaking, or self realization. That's why Shaggy is better suited for Fate. Fate, while I love it, the characters don't change as much. Sure, you can swap out an aspect every so often. But Shaggy will most likely always be "Stoner Teen Detective" with the Trouble "Cowardly". Now, my friend did play in the game, and I posed your question to him, cause he could answer it better: "Coherence? The honed precision that comes from play testing? It's a weird question because the premise is that a barely play tested game is no different from a finished, polished version. But also, that was just a game that didn't use the pbta system well. "Play to find out what happens." There's already a weirdness in how limited it wants to be in terms of what can happen." On a side note Play testing a pbta game, with little to no experience in other pbta games, can be difficult, it's taken me a while to be able to see more and more flaws, even in finished games. I'll praise MonsterHearts to death, and HyveMynd will be there right with me, but the basic moves, are sadly flawed. They can be vague in their triggers, and feel incomplete in their result options. I much prefer this variatiion of the moves Especially Shut some one down's trigger. much more clearly defined. I hope Tobias has had a chance to actually play Apocalypse World by now, because I know he admitted to having never played it back in November, and as I had mentioned to jazzisblues when he brought up his own hack, that before you work on a hack of it, you need to play it a few times. Not just read the (difficult to understand) book, but sit down, roll the dice, and play it. Anyway, that was long. jazzisblues I'm still interested in checking out what you've got so far for your hack. EDIT Probie Tim Did you know it was a play test when you signed up for it? And was that made apparent before you began playing?
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Post by Fiona on Feb 24, 2016 17:02:00 GMT -8
Alright, I missed it the first time, but the deadpan, "Professor Cock". at the beginning killed me. Kudos for making me laugh so hard that I started coughing.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Feb 25, 2016 5:21:14 GMT -8
I'll praise MonsterHearts to death, and HyveMynd will be there right with me, but the basic moves, are sadly flawed. I will indeed be right there with you praising Monsterhearts, but I don't agree with your statement about the moves being flawed. I like the vague triggers as they allow the group and the player to decide what sorts of things count as a trigger. I hope Tobias has had a chance to actually play Apocalypse World by now, because I know he admitted to having never played it back in November, and as I had mentioned to jazzisblues when he brought up his own hack, that before you work on a hack of it, you need to play it a few times. Not just read the (difficult to understand) book, but sit down, roll the dice, and play it. I do agree whole heatedly with this statement however, and that goes for any game, not just PbtA stuff. tremulus was a fucking train wreck of a game. It read like the author had no idea how a PbtA game worked and was just jumping on the rising tide of popularity to make a buck. That is only Kickstarter I ever regret backing so far, and it delivered on time.
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HJRP 1611
Feb 25, 2016 6:19:08 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by joecrak on Feb 25, 2016 6:19:08 GMT -8
I'll praise MonsterHearts to death, and HyveMynd will be there right with me, but the basic moves, are sadly flawed. I will indeed be right there with you praising Monsterhearts, but I don't agree with your statement about the moves being flawed. I like the vague triggers as they allow the group and the player to decide what sorts of things count as a trigger. I hope Tobias has had a chance to actually play Apocalypse World by now, because I know he admitted to having never played it back in November, and as I had mentioned to jazzisblues when he brought up his own hack, that before you work on a hack of it, you need to play it a few times. Not just read the (difficult to understand) book, but sit down, roll the dice, and play it. I do agree whole heatedly with this statement however, and that goes for any game, not just PbtA stuff. tremulus was a fucking train wreck of a game. It read like the author had no idea how a PbtA game worked and was just jumping on the rising tide of popularity to make a buck. That is only Kickstarter I ever regret backing so far, and it delivered on time. Oh man, Tremulus is so bad. There are way too many playbooks for one. My problem with MonsterHearts moves, is that I've seen so many gms read them, the moves happen, and nothing changes. After a move is made in a pbta game, the fiction has changed. Hit or miss, something is now different. So much so, that you should never see the same move rolled twice in a row. Last one shot i played devolved into two players rolling lash out physically back and forth with one another. It was not good. The vagueness is something im not a fan of. Clear defined triggers are so much more helpful for me, and many other new MCs. Shut someone down in particular. Even the basic results arent even the best. Exchange conditions? We both lose a string? "Well i dont have a string so i choose that". Some can be problematic.
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Post by Probie Tim on Feb 25, 2016 6:28:36 GMT -8
You could edit the post. :-) I just did on mine. Whitewashing... Revisionist history for the win. "We've always been at war with Eurasia." Heh.
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Post by Probie Tim on Feb 25, 2016 6:36:22 GMT -8
This is a core conceit for PbtA games, your character will grow and change, they are supposed to at least. Even in a 4-hour, one-shot convention game? Did you know it was a play test when you signed up for it? And was that made apparent before you began playing? I don't recall if the Strategicon website blurb stated it was a playtest, but it was made apparent at the start of the game. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a PbtA "hack" basically a collection of custom playbooks and moves that are tailored to the genre in which the "hack" will run? The underlying game should still be the same from "hack" to "hack", right? So aside of maybe some poorly-worded or badly implemented moves (not that I would know the difference), why would the fact it's a playtest have any bearing on my goal of "play in a PbtA game"? Please note I'm not doubting you or saying you're wrong or anything; this is good conversation and I'm really trying to understand all the PbtA subtleties.
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HJRP 1611
Feb 25, 2016 7:10:43 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by joecrak on Feb 25, 2016 7:10:43 GMT -8
This is a core conceit for PbtA games, your character will grow and change, they are supposed to at least. Even in a 4-hour, one-shot convention game? Did you know it was a play test when you signed up for it? And was that made apparent before you began playing? I don't recall if the Strategicon website blurb stated it was a playtest, but it was made apparent at the start of the game. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a PbtA "hack" basically a collection of custom playbooks and moves that are tailored to the genre in which the "hack" will run? The underlying game should still be the same from "hack" to "hack", right? So aside of maybe some poorly-worded or badly implemented moves (not that I would know the difference), why would the fact it's a playtest have any bearing on my goal of "play in a PbtA game"? Please note I'm not doubting you or saying you're wrong or anything; this is good conversation and I'm really trying to understand all the PbtA subtleties. Yea, even in a 4 hour one-shot. I've seen it happen, and have had it happen. Usually its very relationship based, Masks, is a game about your constantly shifting identity based on what others are saying about you. Okay, so Dungeon World is a hack of Apocalypse World. MonsterHearts is too. They are both completely different games. All that is the same is 2d6+stat, and the result range. But that mechanic does not make the game. World Wide Wrestling is a hack made to play as the professional wrestlers you see on tv, as well as the actors that portray them. It is so far removed from AW that playing that game, would give you no clue as to what playing AW is like. A pbta game works at its best when it is very different from every other pbta hack/game/terminology. Hack is the word term used because, someone once said something like "oh i like this, maybe i can hack this to play an old school dungeon crawl" so they take the skeleton and work from there, and in the end, they have a completely different game. The idea of wanting to play a pbta game is great, but my thinking was "ob, this game isn't finished, maybe this shouldn't be my first foray in to that system." Don't worry, i think its a good conversation too, and i hope I'm not coming off like a jerk face.
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Post by Probie Tim on Feb 25, 2016 8:09:12 GMT -8
i hope I'm not coming off like a jerk face. Nope. More questions to come later.
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