goluptiousgeek
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 6
Currently Playing: D&D
Currently Running: L5R
Favorite Species of Monkey: Japanese Macaque
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Post by goluptiousgeek on Feb 22, 2017 18:19:56 GMT -8
My group tried out Warhammer Fantasy 2nd edition recently. I absolutely love the world, but the system is just painfully bad. I wrote a blog post all about it, if you 're interested... goluptiousgeek.wordpress.com/2017/02/21/warhammer-fantasy-the-best-and-worst-roleplaying-game-ive-ever-played/I'm wondering if anyone has thought of, or had success with running this world with a different system...say, GURPS? If you have, what did you do? If you have any thoughts, what would you recommend? (Yes I'm aware of the 3rd edition, I don't like it either)
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Baarune
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 95
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Post by Baarune on Feb 22, 2017 18:55:00 GMT -8
just had a quick glance at your blog post, and i dont get what you mean by paying gold to level up? in order to advance into another career you need to own the trappings of that career, these are things you could steal or be given, and wfrp doesnt have a leveling system, its unlikely to reach a 2nd advanced career in one campaign, but you contantly increase your stats or skills as you get xp. its a fairly standard percentile system.
also heroic actions arent in keeping with the setting imo. but thats down to how you GM it.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Feb 22, 2017 19:18:57 GMT -8
Two words:
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Baarune
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 95
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Post by Baarune on Feb 22, 2017 19:22:39 GMT -8
also there are some suggestions here: happyjacks.proboards.com/thread/5481/system-warhammer-fantasy-rpg-genericThe main issue you are going to have is representing how chaos magic works in other systems, without combining them with the fluff and random tables from the v2 books. i would possibly look at applying house-rules as there are only particular bits that you dislike.
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Baarune
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 95
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Post by Baarune on Feb 22, 2017 20:39:30 GMT -8
from re-reading your blog, ide advise the GM to be aware of what careers you want to go into. They can introduce story items to fit the trappings you need to gain, so you arent really spending lots of gold on it.
A house rule we use is allowing GM agreed substitutions, if you need X Weapon but your character has Y weapon that makes sense thematically for the career allow it.
Your skills are low, but that doesnt make you useless there are loads of non-houseruled ways of making a roll easier.
use the rules for very Easy(+20%), Easy(+10%), hard(-10%), very hard(-20%) rolls. if you are fighting someone unskilled, frightened or outnumbered. make your rolls easy. if you are on even footing try intimidating them first.
Also make use of the combat actions (all out attack is +30% on your roll) having a defensive off-hand weapon or a sheild allows you a parry each round without having to prepare it.
Lastly your GM is free to give out asmuch gold or xp as he wants and size the combats to fit the party.
Im not sure how you meant "This created a quite sizable balance gap between players, making it very difficult to do most adventures together as a group." with regards to leveling poorly. in our group, aside from amazing roleplaying bonuses, we all receive the same amount of xp. all our characters are skilled in differant ways, if your fellowship is higher than your combat stats then use it, if it doesnt work then be glad you have more combat heavy party members to back you up.
and if your noble doesnt have money use his connections/family, goto a blacksmith and use your fellowship to convince him to send the bill to your family for compensation. be insulted if he were to expect you to carry around your own money, does he not know who you are???!!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 23:09:41 GMT -8
First things first, GURPShammer exists for free on the internet. If you want to play WHFRP in gurps, download it.
So, your problem isn't WHFRP 2nd, it's your D&D mindset. "I'm the hero!" is the thing someone says right before they get knifed to death by naked cultists in Warhammer fantasy. "I'm a noble, so I must be rich and powerful!" Wrong again. And the person above telling you to act all haughty doesn't know shit. Being a 'noble' means you are the 7th son of a noble who may or may not have any money or power. The type of noble you are thinking about is the Noble Lord (which I believe is a third tier carreer). And just like you mentioned in your blog post, your starting character has a bats chance in hell of getting rich enough to own the trappings of a Noble Lord (probably some pistols, mastercraft weapons & armor, riches, I don't remember off hand!).
If you want D&D style adventure and multiple fights per day (you'll be dead before dawn), warhammer is not right for you. Warhammer is a game of investigation more than it is a game of adventure. Think about it more like playing a noir detective. Your going to get hurt while you chase down leads, and it is going to be everything you can do just to survive. Mix that in with a side of 'world that is trying to murder you', and you have warhammer! What makes the game great is that you struggle for what you have. You don't just get to become a knight because it is the obvious next carreer up for you. You might have to jump sideways a couple of times before you can get your act together enough to try and become a knight. Career's like servant are great for this, because part of the job of being a squire or apprentice wizard (apprentice anything really), is doing chores/work for the guy who is teaching you. Maybe if you are loyal enough in your service, whatever lord you serve will gift you that set of full plate you will never afford.
And a pox on you for dissing 3rd. That is the game that is a precursor to FFG's Star Wars line. While it isn't perfect, it certainly is a role playing game, and one worthy of respect. It's certainly gentler in terms of not being hopelessly useless for starting characters (where in 2nd your only hope is to team up and never play fair). But my main thesis here is that you don't understand WHFRP, and you won't be happy with it unless you change it in fundemantal ways. WHFRP is a game about struggling to become something out of nothing, not being big damn heroes.
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Post by chronovore on Feb 22, 2017 23:29:20 GMT -8
I've always loved the visuals of Warhammer FB as well as 40K (clearly everyone at Blizzard Entertainment does as well), and the world's lore and fluff have always fascinated me -- but I wouldn't touch the RP system with a regulation 10' pole.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 23:32:41 GMT -8
Three words. Are you stupid? Or have you just never played WHFRP 2nd and are talking out your ass? Seriously, Dungeon World is all about dungeons. It's in the fucking title. Dungeons aren't a thing in WHFRP. You know why? Because they would murder the characters. This is the game that produced this quote, "Six orcs!? What were you thinking! ... Jesus!" This was after a near tpk with 2nd and 3rd carreer characters. Troll Slayer was suicide as a carreer. The entire point was that you had done something and been so greatly shamed, the only way out was trying to die honorably in battle, because die almost all of them did! Should you advance from being a troll slayer to a giant slayer, then you were even more likely to die! And should you ever make it to demon slayer your carreer exit was listed as "A glorious death". People play WHFRP to be rat catchers, servants, farmers, thugs, etc. These are not the classic D&D careers. Not even close. So far off in fact, that they have no place in warhammer. I just don't even know why you thought this was a good suggestion. I'm halfway thinking that you are just trolling or shilling for anything PbtA at this point, reguardless of if it makes any sense. The only way I can see this suggestion making sense is in the super cynical light of telling this person that he really wants to play D&D, and not warhammer (and while he is at it, he should drink the PbtA koolaid). I mean, I have no problem telling someone that I think they are playing the wrong game (see post above), but I won't suggest someone replace a 40k game with My Little Pony either.
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Post by yojimbohawkins on Feb 23, 2017 0:09:42 GMT -8
Jaysus, @stevensw! I hope you don't talk to people IRL the way you talk to them here! In this case, however, I don't fully disagree with you.
Hey, GG, you've pretty much missed the point. Warhammer is a grim world of perilous adventure. If you're expecting Forgotten Realms, you're in the wrong game, which given your assertion that you really like the setting is surprising. The setting material should have given you all you needed to know on that point.
I see you play Call of Cthulhu, which means you should be used to inadequate characters fighting desperately against hopeless odds, and that's exactly how you should approach WFRP. It's been described as a mashup of D&D and CoC, with very good reason. Starting characters are only one small step above peasants, and character creation is pitched to reflect that. At the very best, after 3 or 4 careers, you might be able to get to a 70 or 80 in a particular skill, if you started in a favourable career. Expecting to be D&D-style big damn heroes in game that is very clearly not D&D seems a bit short-sighted? You don't go into L5R with that mindset, so why would you do it in Warhammer?
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Post by yojimbohawkins on Feb 23, 2017 0:11:51 GMT -8
And who doesn't love the idea of playing a Ratcatcher? You even get a "small but vicious dog"!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2017 0:46:38 GMT -8
Jaysus, @stevensw ! I hope you don't talk to people IRL the way you talk to them here! In this case, however, I don't fully disagree with you. Hey, GG, you've pretty much missed the point. Warhammer is a grim world of perilous adventure. If you're expecting Forgotten Realms, you're in the wrong game, which given your assertion that you really like the setting is surprising. The setting material should have given you all you needed to know on that point. I see you play Call of Cthulhu, which means you should be used to inadequate characters fighting desperately against hopeless odds, and that's exactly how you should approach WFRP. It's been described as a mashup of D&D and CoC, with very good reason. Starting characters are only one small step above peasants, and character creation is pitched to reflect that. At the very best, after 3 or 4 careers, you might be able to get to a 70 or 80 in a particular skill, if you started in a favourable career. Expecting to be D&D-style big damn heroes in game that is very clearly not D&D seems a bit short-sighted? You don't go into L5R with that mindset, so why would you do it in Warhammer? No one is talking here, which is part of the problem. Conversations are always nicer than long text communication. In a conversation I might have just asked if he was joking (since text has no tone, I have no idea). Given that I have to assume it wasn't a joke (based on lack of context), I'm left with the conclusion he's either spewing BS or intentionally spewing BS. Either way, I don't take too kindly to people who vomit garbage all over a discussion. It's one thing to have an opinion or be misinformed. Its a whole other thing to represent yourself as someone who is well informed AND give terrible advice (or orders). I also particularly hate people who try to play everything in one system (particularly D&D hacks, but also including games like GURPS). It's as glaring as telling someone they should get a .300 nitro express for squirrel hunting because, "It's the best gun!" Well, that recommendation is dumb, and so is the jackass who made it. It's obvious to everyone who knows anything about the subject. That only leaves me with duty of pointing it out, so everyone can see how moronic this person is, and hopefully no one will take their advice in the future (as it is either shit or BS propaganda). Of course, there is one other option. Maybe he's a one true wayist! This poor guy who wanted a recommendation on how to play warhammer really just needs to play PbtA, because that must "obviously" be so much better. He just doesn't know what he is missing and couldn't possibly know what he wants. But don't worry! We're here to tell you how to play right. ... Fucking spare me. So in conclusion, just savage it. Kind of an inside joke, but you'll get it if you know hyvemnd.
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dnddad
Journeyman Douchebag
They're bullywugs aren't they Pat...
Posts: 200
Preferred Game Systems: WEG D6 Star Wars, Shadowrun 2nd, Battletech 3rd, Mechwarrior 2nd, AD&D 2nd, AFMBE rev, Savage Worlds Deluxe, Usagi Yojimbo, Marvel Super Heroes Advanced
Currently Playing: Frostgrave & Boltaction
Currently Running: from my problems
Favorite Species of Monkey: Spong
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Post by dnddad on Feb 23, 2017 6:08:04 GMT -8
goluptiousgeek, I read your blog post and I think you are misunderstanding the world and they system. The character creation is suppose to let you know that you are going to die because you are as worthless as everyone else in the world. Everything you do has consequences and will eventually lead you to your death. Characters are not heroes in WHFRP. You made mention of your Cthulhu character, but I think you missed the point that WHFRP is Cthulhu and Tolkien fantasy mixed together. You are missing a really great system as I feel it mixes with the lore/world perfectly.
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Post by Probie Tim on Feb 23, 2017 6:38:58 GMT -8
Whoo boy. If I were a moderator on this forum, there would definitely be some moderation going on. Anyway, I once ran a V:tM/Pathfinder mash-up set in WHFRP's Old World. The premise was that V:tM style vampires (I stole stats and disciplines from Monte Cook's World of Darkness) had infiltrated the governments and churches of the Empire and it was up to the characters to hunt them down and right their wrongs. Both tyler and cadave played in that game, as did Enge. It was a fun game. To answer the OPs question, I used only the setting from WHFRP. Paizo had released an Advanced Players Guide (or something like that) which had a number of WHFRP-esque classes... the Inquisitor, for instance, or even the Alchemist. So I used the Pathfinder system, but requested that players choose from WHFRP-esque classes. The Warlock, for instance, was kinda right out as that class was seeped in Chaos. It can totally work.
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Post by Probie Tim on Feb 23, 2017 7:08:21 GMT -8
I'm left with the conclusion he's either spewing BS or intentionally spewing BS. Or, maybe, he just has a different opinion than you do. Either way, I don't take too kindly to people who vomit garbage all over a discussion. *blink, blink*
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2017 7:28:48 GMT -8
I'm left with the conclusion he's either spewing BS or intentionally spewing BS. Or, maybe, he just has a different opinion than you do. Either way, I don't take too kindly to people who vomit garbage all over a discussion. *blink, blink* And I think a howitzer is the gun for plinking on a sunday. Not all opinions are equally valid. Just look at all the people who are of the opinion that over 90% of the scientific community is wrong about global warming. They have an opinion too! There are also all the drunks who are of the opinion that they drive fine while drunk! I have no idea how we keep pulling them over, since they must be indistinguishable from all other drivers! What should we do about people with grossly wrong opinions which could cause harm to others... (even if just messing up their game)... Hmm. Clearly we should let them continue doing it. It is their opinion after all. Who are we to tell them otherwise? *Eyeroll*
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