daniel
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 217
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Post by daniel on May 26, 2012 4:39:07 GMT -8
So i have been thinking of a house rule for my Pathfinder game (3.5 its the same thing mostly).
My current "problem" is that i really dont like killing of PCs, its disruptive to the game and serves no purpose. Now i will do it if somebody dos something really monumental stupid but being able to go to negative Con score most of the time it dos get bad its usually just being knocked out.
I am getting the sense this is starting to be something that is no longer "scary" so i was thinking of a house rule ware each time you are reduced to Negatives, you permanently loose 1HP
1HP is not a big deal, but i think the idea of the permanent loss might be good enough to give PCs a sufficient encouragement to not let it happen without annoying me and everybody ells with flat out killing characters.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2012 8:20:57 GMT -8
Honestly 1hp isn't much of a threat, especially if they know they can't permanently die. The moment death is no longer an option then you are more likely to have them doing more risky stuff since they know that all they risk is a few hp lost.
Also all our doing by stripping away HP is killing them slowly and reducing effectiveness. Its likely to be ignored at first, and once it starts to become something they care about you are going to end up with players scared of doing anything.
Though I don't actively try to kill off my players, if they die then they die. One guy's character fell off the side of a massive tower. They were several floors up and he decided that while the bulk to the party finished the trip up by the stairs and through some bad guys he was just going to go out a window and scale it. He got shot at from above, slipped, and fell to his death in a nice dramatic scene.
Death can have as much meaning in you game as you are willing to give it. Hell the party then went on a killing spree to avenge their fallen comrade, turning a fairly stealth session into an all out blood bath. Everyone had a blast including the dead guy.
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Post by ayslyn on May 26, 2012 8:32:45 GMT -8
My current "problem" is that i really dont like killing of PCs, its disruptive to the game and serves no purpose. Tell that to Boromir. I don't like killing PCs either. But for dramatic purposes, death can have a LOT of purpose. It helps to highlight that the danger is real. It provides a fantastic RP opportunity; as well as the potential for a great scene.
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daniel
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 217
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Post by daniel on May 26, 2012 9:38:30 GMT -8
Who the hell said anything about dramatic purposes? You prty much missed the point by a mile... its not about death being pointless... eeh just forget it. No your barking up the wrong three.
Yes i can kill a PC if i want to, i can do it in multiple ways i can do it by having him fall over dead if i want to. Its not the point, they are also not 'Immune to death" tentagil i have no idea ware you got the idea that this is the case.
The reason i chose to keep PC death low is because i have played in the "Tomb of horrors" game enough times to not want to do it, its just disruptive and pointless in a very non dramatic way. --
Back to the original post "Honestly 1hp isn't much" no, neither is 10gp have you ever had a pickpocket take 10gp from one of your PCs?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2012 20:01:40 GMT -8
I've had pickpockets pull everything from 1gp to 100gp from players depending on level and why they were being pick pocketed. I even had one player get picked while he was trying to bribe a thief, he gave the guy 10 gp and lost an extra 50. Mostly because he decided to be a bit of a dick to the NPC. It led to a chase through the streets of the city and some interesting consequences later.
I realize you never said they were immune to death, but if the players know that you don't like to kill them then you get the same result. They start expecting you to let them live simply because they know killing you would annoy you and disrupt the game. The moment death stops being a consideration then the entire tone of a game is going to change. I don't know your group so that 1 hp loss might be enough to up the tension a little, but personally I know that my group wouldn't even notice it until it got to the point where they started to lose effectiveness do to how squishy they were.
One thing I might suggest that has worked with my game is that you don't let them track their own health, instead you track it behind the screen, only letting them know when they are at half health and very close to death/unconsciousness without giving them actual numbers. By taking it out of their hands they never know how close to dropping they actually are. In a game I play in the DM does the same thing and not knowing how close to death I might be tends to change the way I play alot.
It is more work though, so might not be doable depending on what else you are doing, but I find it an effective technique as my players don't try as much stupid stuff. Also when they do take big risks it seems alot more meaningful to them when they succeed.
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Post by uselesstriviaman on May 26, 2012 22:30:03 GMT -8
Who the hell said anything about dramatic purposes? You prty much missed the point by a mile... its not about death being pointless... eeh just forget it. No your barking up the wrong three. Yes i can kill a PC if i want to, i can do it in multiple ways i can do it by having him fall over dead if i want to. Its not the point, they are also not 'Immune to death" tentagil i have no idea ware you got the idea that this is the case. The reason i chose to keep PC death low is because i have played in the "Tomb of horrors" game enough times to not want to do it, its just disruptive and pointless in a very non dramatic way. -- Back to the original post "Honestly 1hp isn't much" no, neither is 10gp have you ever had a pickpocket take 10gp from one of your PCs? Dude. Chill. Tentagil was simply offering some advice. No need to get your hackles raised, especially when he wasn't being a dick about his suggestions at all. I'm curious: What was the reason for starting this thread? Were you actually asking for advice with your original post, or were you merely complaining about your problem and the house rule you created to "fix" it?
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daniel
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 217
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Post by daniel on May 26, 2012 23:53:29 GMT -8
The Dick part was fully aimed at ayslyn, although i think i might have overreacted some chalk it up to a bad day.
No it was a legitimate question, but the question was not about dramatically appropriate death.
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Post by ayslyn on May 27, 2012 9:29:44 GMT -8
Then you probably should have clarified that. All you said was that death was pointless. That's not a whole lot to go on, and I try very hard not to read too much into people's statements on the internet.
There are whole worlds between Tomb of Horrors, and the Immortal Party. Sometimes a "pointless" death can be dramatic, and provide for a great opportunity.
As for the house rule, I think that I agree with Tentagil. I don't think that most players will notice it until it really racks up.
However, before I go farther, some more information might be helpful. Are your players not healing at all? Are they pushing themselves past their healer's ability to keep up?
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oldnemrod
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 92
Preferred Game Systems: WOD (old and new), 4E DnD, Shadowrun, 5E DND,
Currently Playing: Star Wars Saga Edition( I'M A MANDALORIAN!)
Currently Running: 5E Hoard of the Dragon Queen
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Post by oldnemrod on May 27, 2012 10:11:52 GMT -8
Messing with the ability scores the PCs use the most usually gets their attention. I've had wizards and fighters take death more seriously when it threatened their "badassery".
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Post by ayslyn on May 27, 2012 10:32:59 GMT -8
I wouldn't notice it at 1HP a time. But then again, my groups aren't really dropping like flies, either.
It all depends on the details that Daniel hasn't filled in yet.
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daniel
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 217
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Post by daniel on May 29, 2012 13:47:42 GMT -8
Well in general (other groups) I am not shore if the 1hp rule would work although I think it might, but here I think it should. The thing I noticed is that a few of the PCs are taking risks that I think get a bit over the top at times.
Now I have killed PCs in this group and that seemed to have calmed things for as few sessions (resurrection is not that easy in the setting I use, another reason I don’t like willy nilly death) but at the same time I don’t want to kill off a PC every handful of sessions because you can only do that a number of times before you have no more campaign and its hard enough to get a decent amount of investment from them. Most of them do have some, and we have what I think is the start of actual character and character interaction building up.
The group is not new to DnD but they are new to Role playing for the most part.
I have used things like equipment braking or other permanent and semi permanent things and they seem to react well to is for the “Stick” part of carrot and stick.
I am not looking for something big, just a little poke in the ribs every time somebody gets a bit to cocky. Something that’s not drastic enough to make somebody not like there character anymore but is mechanically noticeable. I think the other reason the group is a bit cocky at times is there are 7 of them (mostly) so I think its also a mental numbers thing
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Post by jazzisblues on May 29, 2012 13:53:49 GMT -8
Just a thought, but instead of the 1hp thing, which might work just fine this is just a thought, if you take the time to keep track of hp and then start whittling away at their bonuses as they lose hp.
Simple example for every 25% of their hp they lose they lose an equal % of bonuses to their abilities.
So a guy who has an 18 STR (+4) who loses 25% of his hp is now STR (+3), at 50% of his hp he's at +2 ... You get the idea.
Just something to think about.
JiB
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Post by ayslyn on May 29, 2012 14:11:11 GMT -8
I think that you might just be looking at a disconnect in what you want, and what the group wants out of a game.
That being said, if you are dead set on modifying this behaviour, I guess that over time the rule you proposed could work.
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daniel
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 217
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Post by daniel on May 30, 2012 0:15:38 GMT -8
See the thing is, i think they want the role play its just that when everybody is actually siting there it somehow chokes more often then not. Now i am not a fespian but i have been trying to counteract this by being more proactive and doing voices (as well as i can manage) and just acting and not caring if it looks stupid If the group just wanted dungeon crawly killy take there pants i could run that and have no problem. There are a lot of things "wrong" with the group in general jazzisblues: If there were say 3-4 people i would do that but in that case i might just switch to Gurps or something. The thing is that with 7 people i am runing DnD because its a game i know to the point that i can just hand wave my self trough it without looking at any books and be reasonably accurate to any rules. Its my trick for not drowning in paper, it works just about.
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Post by muntjack on May 30, 2012 6:19:24 GMT -8
Sometimes death can be one of the best moments in a campaign. By the end of my 2 year campaign, I had only one player with their original character, who eventually became a king and whatnot. Well when we got toward the end of the campaign, he had been tormented by this horde of demons that they were trying to defeat. I was able to set up a scene that lasted like a half hour where everyone from his past comes back, blaming him for their deaths. Included in there were some of the other player's dead PCs, who they got to roleplay to add to the effectiveness of the scene. By the end my buddy Jake (who holds himself as a tough guy) was crying.
That's the sort of emotional response that PC death can have on a campaign.
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