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Post by Kainguru on Aug 28, 2013 14:46:37 GMT -8
At work with a random thought. I agree that a good gateway product is essential to pique the interest of the unitiated. Another good way to attract people is not showing up with your fanboy shirt that hasn't been washed in weeks, bathing, having knowledge of current events not involved with the hobby(bat-fleck doesnt count). I propose a special day. A game day where all that play, play in public well dressed and carrying a newspaper. Guys in suits and ties carrying briefcases full of core books and character sheets. Let's be the Mad Men(and Mad Ladies) of our hobby. Lets work to actively rid the stereotype of cheeto dusted fatbeards. Good thing we are getting away from hyperbolic jehovah's witness style proselytizing... This whole discussion, as they tend to do has swerved waaaaay off the original post. "What are you doing to grow the hobby ?" YOU Not hypothetical you, not the ROYAL WE, not the hyvemynd (enjoy SeptemberCon you lucky bastard), not even the Gallery of Peanuts. Aside from flame igniting words about 'responsibility' and such. What have you done that has made gaming more accessible, brought in more players, and in general increased YOUR fun because of it. These ifs and maybes are an interesting intellectual exercise, but what have YOU done that works. If you have done nothing and desire to do nothing thats fine with me, but that doesn't help me. I think telling people what they should or should not do (especially americans, especially gamers! you should try telling an alaskan what they should or should not do...) makes for lovely burning smells and hackles being raised. But, it doesn't help me think of new ways to INCREASE MY FUN with games and get more people involved. The emphasis will always be on the FUN. Its a game. If it feels like obligation or work...It is now no longer FUN...it is work and I would like to get paid please. So, maybe to steer this good ship away from the iceberg of social responsibility (trying out some non-train metaphors) What are YOU doing to help grow the hobby that you enjoy. What was fun about it ? What might you do differently? Again if you are not into that then you don't need to respond. Although I'm sure YOU will. Have a lovely day citizen. All praise Friend Computer! Cheers, Curt J. Thank you steering the ship back onto the shore . . . . . . so the ferried train could get back on track (Haa Haa - train metaphor strikes back when you least expect it) Besides . . . social responsibility?? fuck social responsibility that's a term usually reserved for the use of corporate management to disguise the true intent of a companies actions (like giving a 3rd world country obsolete tractors and then tying them to exclusive use of your company for massively overpriced spare parts) or politicians wanting you to do something that's in their interest and not yours. Curtis is right - it's got to be fun . . . if it isn't anymore and it requires some sort of dedication outside of being a geek and a gamer and having normal social interactions with friends and colleagues then, as a HOBBY, it deserves to die . . . I believe a lot of the pontification over this issue overstates the impact one person can REASONABLY effect and understates the natural curiosity of outsiders who eventually follow the lure of the TTRPG. Cause face it guys: none of us were born gamers or inducted by a selection committee and then forced to partake in an orgiastic rite with a goat and virgins blood - though I believe that is a proper introduction to FATAL . . . Aaron
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Post by Forresst on Aug 28, 2013 15:42:07 GMT -8
You know what *I* do to grow the hobby? I ask my friends who are cool if they wanna play with me. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't, but it's what I do!
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Aug 28, 2013 16:18:39 GMT -8
You know what *I* do to grow the hobby? I ask my friends who are cool if they wanna play with me. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't, but it's what I do! Speaking of...I do believe you suggested some clucked up game? Has that happened yet? I'm still boat bound but hope its still in the works... Growing the hobby one crazed chicken at a time. EGGSCELLENT!
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Post by Forresst on Aug 28, 2013 16:38:01 GMT -8
We kinda fell apart for a while. I was gonna wait until you were back to land and try again!
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oldnemrod
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 92
Preferred Game Systems: WOD (old and new), 4E DnD, Shadowrun, 5E DND,
Currently Playing: Star Wars Saga Edition( I'M A MANDALORIAN!)
Currently Running: 5E Hoard of the Dragon Queen
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Post by oldnemrod on Aug 30, 2013 17:54:10 GMT -8
I'm invested in growing the entire hobby, not just the amount of people within my personal gaming group. More people not only means more money for game companies, but more creative minds in the hobby. These could be other gamers or even more creative minds behind the next big games.
You and WE are synonymous in this hobby. Ours is one of the few that actual requires at least on other person to work. My group has printed out business cards of our facebook page and passed them around to all the bookstores in the area. Not just niche hobby stores. Yes it takes some work, but if it means that the hobby grows, its worth it.
If you have bought more than one RPG book, you are invested in the hobby and there is a responsibility to increase it. You are welcome to waive it aside and not do anything, but then you have no right to complain when fans or the industry make a decision you don't like. Good manners and social aptness are important to more than like minded friends and acquaintances. They show that our hobby doesn't have only people with poor social skills and bad hygiene.
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Post by Kainguru on Aug 31, 2013 3:14:49 GMT -8
I think people confuse the business with the hobby - the hobby cost next to nothing and *could* survive the collapse of the businesses associated with it. It started as an idea in a basement between friends, only later did it become a business. NOTHING can stop anyone of us doing the same thing . . . WoTC need us and the hobby, the hobby and us do not need WoTC. It's not like scuba diving where one needs to go to a specialist supplier for things like air tanks. Nor is it a universal truth to make a sweeping statement that in purchasing a product one automatically assumes the mantle of responsibility in its continued promotion - I like Pepsi Max and buy it regularly but I hardly have a responsibility to promote it as a consumer nor am I disenfranchised from voicing any criticisms I may have of that product and it's continued development. In fact I have every right to be critical simply because I am the consumer. The hobby will survive no matter what - as long a we still tell stories and engage in 'what if's '. What is REALLY at stake is the business of the hobby AND the community. Yet there are many niche interests that have robustly survived discontinued official support thru the continued efforts of its adherents - for example, in computer games, System Shock 2. Aaron
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Post by Kainguru on Aug 31, 2013 4:18:52 GMT -8
Fuck!!!! I just realised - I didn't swear once in my last post . . . cunts. Aaron
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Aug 31, 2013 9:10:03 GMT -8
I'm invested in growing the entire hobby, not just the amount of people within my personal gaming group. More people not only means more money for game companies, but more creative minds in the hobby. These could be other gamers or even more creative minds behind the next big games. You and WE are synonymous in this hobby. Ours is one of the few that actual requires at least on other person to work. My group has printed out business cards of our facebook page and passed them around to all the bookstores in the area. Not just niche hobby stores. Yes it takes some work, but if it means that the hobby grows, its worth it. If you have bought more than one RPG book, you are invested in the hobby and there is a responsibility to increase it. You are welcome to waive it aside and not do anything, but then you have no right to complain when fans or the industry make a decision you don't like. Good manners and social aptness are important to more than like minded friends and acquaintances. They show that our hobby doesn't have only people with poor social skills and bad hygiene. This is what I mean about practical advice. Its nice to hear what people are doing that helps increase the size of an RPG community in their community. I think the philosophy behind it can be quibbled over but if it works great. From a practical aspect if my wife's bookstore holds introductory games at their store it brings people in to play and watch and hopefully SPEND money. This in turn encourages her store to carry more products and run more games with an increasingly diverse array of games books being offered. And I do get what you are saying about appearance and social skills. My visits to the FLGS remind me that is not a generally understood concept. By the way oldnemrod how big is your group ? Sounds like you've put a lot of effort into advertising for it. Cheers, Curt.
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oldnemrod
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 92
Preferred Game Systems: WOD (old and new), 4E DnD, Shadowrun, 5E DND,
Currently Playing: Star Wars Saga Edition( I'M A MANDALORIAN!)
Currently Running: 5E Hoard of the Dragon Queen
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Post by oldnemrod on Sept 1, 2013 21:13:09 GMT -8
D.T. Pints: Activity gets slow moving into fourth quarter as most of us that started the group work retail. As of right now we have 103 followers, some out of town but most are in the Seattle-Everett area. We are S.E.G.U.E. on facebook. Seattle-Everett Gaming and Urban Escape
As for the hobby never dying, it is true that it can continue without the business... as an even smaller niche hobby.
I didn't mean to say that buying a product makes you responsible for it. I meant that in purchasing more than one core book you imply that you are not tied to a brand and prefer variety in your hobby. That variety comes from the hobby growing. Yes, we can have an independent hobby. We don't need the industry pumping new ideas to possible inductees or providing guidance and inspiration to gamers that want to create something original. We can be happy with our groups, playing the games we have and maybe getting a new gamer once in a while.
I'm more hopeful for the hobby. I would like to hear debates on the settings and core rules being used in games as often as I hear random people discussing the pros and cons of the next gaming consoles. I'm working on my own system and setting and the biggest prospect I'm looking forward to is making it have a living online setting; having the entire fanbase contributing to the lore. I believe that the ease of access to affecting the fiction will give it much more of a draw.
Even if my actions don't bring gamers into my circle but they add to other groups or just get people into tabletop gaming, that's a win.
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Sept 5, 2013 2:27:02 GMT -8
At work with a random thought. I agree that a good gateway product is essential to pique the interest of the unitiated. Another good way to attract people is not showing up with your fanboy shirt that hasn't been washed in weeks, bathing, having knowledge of current events not involved with the hobby(bat-fleck doesnt count). I propose a special day. A game day where all that play, play in public well dressed and carrying a newspaper. Guys in suits and ties carrying briefcases full of core books and character sheets. Let's be the Mad Men(and Mad Ladies) of our hobby. Lets work to actively rid the stereotype of cheeto dusted fatbeards. THIS^ and the later post with the one exception that it is not the player's responsibility anymore than saying because the fans like blood on the field, football has no responsibility to pay concussed NFL players. Or because people smoke the cigarrette industry... I think you savvy. This is a top down cascade communications thing. As a member of that industry, oldnemrod, you have a responsibility to educate those who read your books. God bless you if you include what you just wrote into the preface of your published material! Here is what I have done - basically causing the reverse affect (thus shrinking the hobby) to occur due to the hobbyists who come to me to play. PLEASE CHECK IT OUT. See the nerd rage for yourself, and know I have been fighting the good fight but for a losing cause because the reality and the perception of reality tend to converge on the lowest common demoninator. FACEBOOK - I LOATH (but keep a group through my girlfriend's profile) www.facebook.com/#!/groups/114651881879023/ NETWORKING GROUPS I CURATE: Tabletop Role Playing Gamers - English Speaking Group ON TWITTER - WHERE I LIST AND PROMOTE RPGs TO A LARGELY MAINSTREAM FOLLOWING ME NON-RPG FORUMS www.polishforums.com/poland-events-33/warsaw-pl-tabletop-role-playing-game-group-expats-only-dd-42691/...................AND ................. www.polishforums.com/poland-events-33/dd-group-expats-warsaw-needs-one-more-player-45273/www.expat-blog.com/en/classified/europe/poland/warsaw/6-events-activities-leisure/162777-social-activity-designed-to-form-social-networks.htmlwww.local-life.com/warsaw/forum/308-Role_Playing_Games_in_English_for_Expats_in_WarsawAND OTHERS SOME DEFUNCT OTHERS I AM NOT BOTHERED TO LOOK UP PLUS TRADITIONAL PRINT MEDIA www.newpolandexpress.pl/npe_classifieds.phpwww.warsawinsider.pl/featuresPLUS MY APPEARANCE AT POLCON CONVENTION, MEDIA PLACEMENTS IN VERTICAL AND ELECTRONIC MEDIA OUTLETS, et cetera. This is not my responsibility however. I should be paid for this work and would be by any client. Save for the convention where I was selling something, I have nothing to sell. I. Gain. No. Profit from casting such a wide net. I DO NOT EVEN HAVE A GROUP TO RECRUIT FOR - and they do nothing to recruit. As I mentioned, just the opposite occurs by playing to the perception (nerd rage, minutia discussions, etc., on open non-hobby-related fora that might otherwise attract new people - like a virus). I even recruited Gary Gygax to help me from Chicago, all of which I add at my expense: phone calls in Poland are not flat monthly rates but also by the second; printing; travel in some cases; and my time last but not least. You want NERD RAGE, just try me on this topic. But it's not about nerd rage. It's about the nerd gatekeepers and something called equity theory.
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Sept 6, 2013 1:12:55 GMT -8
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Sept 6, 2013 4:47:29 GMT -8
AND THE INDUSTRY SHOULD ENCOURAGE (how about courteous recognition to?) PEOPLE LIKE THIS GUY (it's a link, not a colour) This year we decided to run an activity faire for the students. The students were given a break from the traditional school schedule and were encouraged to sign up for various hobbies and crafts run by teachers. We had both traditional board games such as Monopoly, Risk, and Settlers of Cataan, and role-playing games. The day was a rousing success and introduced new blood to the gaming hobby.
After the activities day the, students requested a regular gaming club that meets weekly. I supervise the club, organize the games, run a multitude of games and game systems so the students experience different types and genres, and train students to GM games themselves. The club currently has 18 regular members.
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