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Post by guitarspider on Feb 3, 2014 23:39:52 GMT -8
Are we going to have a standard system?
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Post by jughead5187 on Feb 4, 2014 0:29:13 GMT -8
Knowing HJ, It will probably be system agnostic. Ideally I would like to see a multi-genre, but as I said in the other topic, it would be the most difficult to write.
A fantasy one would be VERY usable and easier to implement.
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Post by Kainguru on Feb 4, 2014 3:16:23 GMT -8
Well to hearken back to Moorcock and his 'open source' world used in the Jerry Cornelius Chronicles multi-genre can be supported. JC's 'world' is a fractured multi-verse ('the catastrophe') . . . the protagonists move through co-existing alternate versions of themselves in different landscapes of the same 'world'. The conflict comes from each protagonists belief in how best to address their circumstances ie: JC and his co-horts wish to apply a 'deep fix', that is restore balance and repair the catastrophe while others seek to use the opportunity of the catastrophe to re-model the 'world' to suit their own interests. Depending on which of these mutiversal 'worlds' the current narrative is set the relationships between the main protagonists shift -they are fluid eg: in one narrative it may suit the long term goals of JC to side with the likes of the Bishop Beesley and Miss Brunner while in another they remain rivals and/or bitter enemies. NB: the protagonists have a sort of immortality - death in one alternate simply closes that alternate to them, they persist in the other alternates . . . depending on the incarnation they may or may not even beaware of their variant selves and/or the knowledge they have might be missing or altered. It's implied that all the protagonists are time travelers (forward, back and side ways)and that a condition of this freedom is that any manifestation in any one time line must act consistent with that time line . . . overtly acting on knowledge from an alternate manifestation risks paradox and being ejected from that timeline. eg: JC knows Miss Brunner, from former encounters, is an extreme right wing eugenics fetishist but in this timeline she has not presented as this, JC 'knows' she is diametrically opposed to his goals but cannot act on that knowledge unless it's consistent with the current timeline . . . what happens, usually, is a game of move and countermove as the opposed protagonists ally but attempt to move events towards their own goals while remaining consistent. This has allowed stories that have wars raging across Europe with dirigibles and huge 'flying wings' utilizing steampunk technology, while in another JC is a fashionable 'Huggy Bear style'70's 'pimp', and yet another where a 1960's America has occupied the UK in a fashion not dissimilar to the Vietnam conflict (an intentional allegory BTW). Such a set up would allow a multigenre Jackerworld and persistent PC's/NPC's . . . death of a PC/NPC in one Jackerworld wouldn't be so constrictive or problematic. One could have a vast metaplot driving the whole, such as Moorcock establishing that his main protagonists are striving to undo the Catastrophe, including an HQ of sorts from which they monitor the various alternates in an attempt to discern how best to achieve this end, but how detailed would be up to the contributors . . . in the Moorcock example he left even the metaplot very open for other writers to use as they saw fit. BTW: all the characters in Moorcocks Jerry Cornelius books remain open source to this day . . . any writer is free to use and write about these characters and events and all contributions become canon. It was a writing experiment that he started back in the 60's and it's been running for over 40 years now Aaron
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Post by guitarspider on Feb 4, 2014 7:02:14 GMT -8
The only persistent NWN world I was a part of was consistent, but also run like a dictatorship in many ways...
I've also had an aborted attempt at a shared world, one of the GMs ended up introducing random things and it kind of fell apart.
I don't think it's as easy as a few writers sitting down with roleplaying worlds.
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Post by Kainguru on Feb 4, 2014 7:23:47 GMT -8
Part of the problem with shared worlds, as exampled above, is Narrative Control - being willing to give it up and go with the flow a bit more . . . When I mention Moorcock's example it's not a few writers . . . it's any writer - the basic premise is loose enough to let writers do anything yet still remain within the fabric of his 'setting' Aaron
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D.T. Pints
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Post by D.T. Pints on Feb 4, 2014 8:58:05 GMT -8
I'll repost from the poll thread...just 'cuz I love the look of my own words: The thing about "shared world" (persistent worlds) is its kinda like a big sandbox that everybody gets to build in right ? One guy builds a castle, the next gal builds a labyrinth, and then the next douche brings in the tonka bulldozer and knocks it all down...we just have to be prepared for that to a degree. That's why I think (though so dude in Osaka will consider committing sepuku at the suggestion) create a UNIVERSE using SAVAGE WORLDS. Its fast, easy and generic. That way if Thar of the Hill People gets abducted by aliens and gets taken to Planet Tappy the rules are ready for it. GURPS is an amazing system, maxinstuff's Steampunk game is just starting to remind me of that. But, if we are hoping for simplicity of rules to really focus on a GAME WORLD WE CAN ALL PLAY (I really should work on my caps shouting...) I think SW is a go to. Even better! How about using the system of the guy that brought us all here in the first place...Moment of Truth! I'm currently running a Lovecraftian Horror game using Stu Venable's system and I think it is incredibly fast and flexible and really focuses on the narrative/fiction which is what I think we as a community are hoping to create here. Besides it never hurts to stroke the Grand Poobah's Ego...right? . A New Dark AgeWhy should we as a community bother to do this ? What makes it fun ? 1) A chance to get to at some point play/run a game with potentially everyone from the community. 2) The opportunity to help create some engaging, interesting narrative story lines that can later be liberally stolen from for our own games. 3) What better example of COLLABORATIVE story telling than an actual universe that is created, played in and built upon by the ENTIRE community. But to harken back to guitarspider's and Kainguru's we just have to be prepared for some world WRECKING as well. 4) My plan for the current Lovecraftian game using Moment of Truth was to play 5-10 sessions as GM and then if someone is interested just hand it over to another GM and let them take the storyline wherever they saw fit. But to do so requires being mindful of what you are leaving for the next GM...good story hooks, interesting NPCs lots of BLANK SPACES on the map. I agree again with Kainguru that the Moorcock stories are a good example of a multiverse allowing persistent characters to exist regardless of what load of shit may fall upon their heads. (hmmm...what a rambling Number 4.) Anyway the point is...START SMALL. Have characters that aren't exactly EPIC, have storylines that aren't exactly EPIC, but as the thing grows those connections will form. I think we as gamers and devourers of episodic media really enjoy being a part of continuing story lines and characters. To a degree most of us are a bit bored with the "one shot" game. Perhaps we can get "He Who Sit's in Pasadena Dreaming" to run a Moment of Truth game for Jackercon III that will kick the whole shebang off (I love that spell check is totally fine with "shebang"). Cheers, Curt.
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Post by guitarspider on Feb 4, 2014 8:59:31 GMT -8
Not saying we can't do it Moorcock's way, but authors don't have players. There's certain issues which I've seen crop up when I had to do with shared roleplaying worlds. Such as, are there limits to what we want the players to do? I'd say no, but that has its own ramifications. A metaplot is going to be a mess unless one person coordinates it. Which we may not want, because it can end up being a drag on rails (see NWN world). So do we even want a meta-plot? A place where GMs talk about what they do, so the other GMs can keep up and coordinate would probably be a good idea anyway. And so on.
We don't need answers now, but it's stuff we should probably be thinking about eventually.
I probably sound quite negative, but as you may have guessed, my experiences with shared worlds were not necessarily the best...
edit: MoT sounds like a good idea for a system. Keeping with the HPJ theme and all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2014 20:05:52 GMT -8
I'd say, what we'd do would probably not have a metaplot. I've never been a huge fan of metaplot, and plus, we're Happy Jackers, railroads don't do well when we cross them. So I imagine that it'll be more of a coordination of GMs on, "here's what my group is doing" and cross checking things so that one group doesn't blow up a town the same time a group is in said town.
But yeah, if we did multi-genre part of the thing would be doing it in a way that it's manageable. Cause a multiverse Moorcock style though fun, would require all the potential GMs to hash out some of the multiverses, and be careful that we don't go overboard. Since too many means players could hop around them and almost never see the outcome of another group. Rather I propose something more like Tales From the Nightside, a book series I recommend checking out, where the setting is this huge city of indiscriminate size with all sorts of people in it. You have Victorian adventurers, drag queen superheroes, wizards for hire, necromancers who run the local morgue, etc. etc. So, with the idea that this place is weird and strange it allows for most anything to go. With the only thing being we start it off with players being probably low on the totem pole of being known. Essentially street level heroes/villains.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2014 20:40:41 GMT -8
I don't know if it should be system agnostic. A shared world using one system means we're all on the same page both tonally and mechanically. It would help make sure we're all "level" so to speak. I mean, making it system agnostic would mean we'd only have to worry about narrative stuff, but when it comes to sharing NPCs and the like the rule transfers would be a bit of a pain. Plus, the level of success different groups have might be somewhat proportional to the system they run. If I ran with Fate, the players would succeed quite a bit, more than in games such as GURPs or HERO for example. Which, on my own isn't that bad, but when my players start doing greater things cause they have greater amounts of success vs the group who's success isn't as high due to mechanical curves, and the like, it's not really fair.
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Post by heavymetaljess on Feb 5, 2014 6:50:31 GMT -8
I love the idea of a shared world and of a fanzine. I have access to inDesign and would be willing to volunteer some time to help. But, I definitely couldn't do it alone. Does anyone else have access to inDesign? I think if a few of us managed it, there's a high probability this could be workable.
There is a RPG podcast that occasionally makes up stuff for a shared world as part of their episodes. I feel terrible, but my bad memory prevents me from remembering which one. This could easily be incorporated into the fancast as well as a great P.S. for listener emails to the show. 'Cause, I never have gamer horror stories.
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Post by Kainguru on Feb 5, 2014 8:07:56 GMT -8
The trick with the Moorcock approach is there is NO meta plot just an idea that justifies the multiverse - a single consistency that let's any one alternate do what it wants. Jerry Cornelius is now, officially, part of the Doctor Who universe because Moorcock bought one of his incarnations into the BBC Doctor Who novel he wrote - that novel now stands alone as both part of the Doctor Who canon and part of the Eternal Champion cycle . . . Though he only hints but never explicitly states that the Doctor is another champion (that's left up to each individual reader to decide, there is no right/canon answer). It works because it's an idea not a meta plot - that of the eternal struggle between law and chaos and the balance trying to negotiate between the two. Want a crazy 'verse? then chaos dominates the only question is will the PC's bring order or contribute to the chaos, that's up to the players and GM because it won't disturb the idea (maybe this 'verse is meant to be chaotic to serve the balance OR maybe it needs more order either way you won't be stepping on anyone's toes which ever way it plays out). Aaron
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Post by D.T. Pints on Feb 5, 2014 8:43:52 GMT -8
Yeah I wouldn't be TOO worried about a metaplot. Just some interesting opportunities for someones sci-fi game to get all messy in someone else's Lovecraftian Horror game (hmmm...now who's running that one again ?). So i put it forward to you fine, creative people...think of running a MoT game for Jackercon put it in a city/town/ whatever and then that setting by default becomes part of Jackerworld. And we build it from there. If you'd rather run the game in System X...I still think there are opportunities to build on the community narrative regardless.
Example:
L5R game. Certain interesting samurai are created...they battle oni and one of the more poetic samurai gets his lovely wife slaughtered by the aforementioned oni...great character created by a collaborative narrative of various happy jackers and then...ooops WORMHOLE! Now its the Samurai's Take Manhattan!
Its not just the world that can be persistent, interesting characters pop up in different genres in my games all the time (bit of reskinning maybe but the spirit stays true).
Father Torch (of Dark Heresy fame) will be making an appearance in my upcoming Pathfinder game...
Alright crew gotta go get salty and work for a living.
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Post by SirGuido on Feb 5, 2014 10:18:56 GMT -8
I ran a Pathfinder game once where the party attacked a wizard and were teleported to somewhere they had never seen, they spent several sessions adventuring in the middle of nowhere with little to no interaction with anyone but a few "ruddy skinned natives speaking a language you've never encountered before." The combats were usually fights against said natives, or a few large animals in the area. That's when they stumbled upon their first non-native person and he was sending strange missiles their way from a loud magic rod while astride a horse. When they finally subdued the man after receiving several wounds from his hand held device was when the players realized they were in the Wild West.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 18:31:49 GMT -8
Right now I'm running a multigenre sort of game using Spirit of the Century. They've faced off against mad scientists, science+occult masters, dark things from beyond, and are now in a sort of Sword and Sorcery world that's underneath NYC(home to the Hobo City of New England, Vagabondia). So multi-genre is fine and can be fun. What kind of scope would it be though, since a multigenre world, for example since the poll is still going, can be centered in a city, a bar, or be a multiverse hopping thing(Chronicles of Amber, or Moorcock). What kind of scope would people want to see?
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Post by stork on Feb 5, 2014 18:47:12 GMT -8
I have a solution......bearing in mind that Happy Jacks is all Stu's' idea, and he hosts the podcast. And since we are all struggling with what genre to do it in. Why not kill three birds with one stone?
I submit to you, dear readers, a game system that is Genre agnostic. Has a pre-built setting that supports and encourages a variety of genres, is still well supported, and is Stu's favorite system!
Say it with me all....Mook you know what it is.........................
GURPS!
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