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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2015 1:41:45 GMT -8
Cool episode, still in the middle of it. The idea of dual stage creatures has been covered well by the AngryGM. Check out his website for how he implements this for D&D 5E. He also has a cool system for cutting off parts of monsters. Your issue with the cliff is why I dislike D20. The characters are closer to demigods than people past a point. One way to hide that part of the system is with failing forward or taking it out of the realm of the written rules. Have the damage be from when the character lands badly and injures themselves or when Aaragorn goes over the cliff he is out of the scene and we will get back to him and the consequences later.
Just like slitting a helpless persons throat, sometimes the rules need to be put aside. We all know the outcome, so why are we rolling dice and looking to rule books? I think FATE as a system handles the cliff scene best by using the pulp trope "No one could survive that". Later you get a scene of how they made it. Character death is needless as a consequence in the fall and die scenario, the character is out of the story for X amount of time with possible further consequences. Killing them isn't dramatic or interesting.
Thats my my two cents so far. Keep up the good podcasting!
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Post by yojimbohawkins on Oct 27, 2015 4:01:01 GMT -8
Snipers.
Snipers really came to the fore during WW2. There were always marksmen, but it was only when some of those marksmen were trained by Scottish Gillies in the Highlands that the art of stalking and sniping became synonymous. Snipers are known as a force multiplier; any unit deploying snipers is essentially punching above it's weight.
Snipers are fantastic at holding ground defensively; a whole unit can be pinned down by a good sniper team. They seem to strike with impunity, and the sudden death aspect is what makes them very, very scary.
Offensively, snipers are brilliant at providing cover for advancing troops, and they'll usually be looking for targets of opportunity. Enemy commanders, communications, gunners, medics and other specialist troops will hamper an enemy's ability to fight, so taking them out is a priority.
A sniper isn't a lone gunman in a military (or para-military) organisation. You have a team consisting of a shooter and a spotter. The main reason for this is that a sniper in the aim essentially has tunnel vision; he's concentrating on his target in the scope, so his peripheral vision and awareness of his immediate area is compromised. The spotter helps the shooter set up, find his targets and guard his back when he taking the shot. From an RPG perspective, that might not seem too interesting, but it could be. Dependent on system, the chances are the sniper character is a specialist; he's likely a stealthy crack-shot with one type of rifle. The spotter would be more generalist; still a good shot, but with other skills to bring to the party.
There are obviously a number of media resources to consult when putting snipers in your game.
Movies: American Sniper is a recent one; if you haven't seen it, you should. It's very good. Enemy at the Gates is an adaptation of the experiences of WW2 Russian sniper Vasily Zaytsev. Its a pretty good war film focusing on snipers. The Tom Berenger 'classic' Sniper is cheesy, but fun in a 90's way. Shooter starring Mark Wahlberg is a good example of a conspiracy involving snipers which I have shamelessly stolen from for a game. The Day of the Jackal (book and film) are cracking stories about the hunt for a sniper (the remake with Bruce Willis is less palatable, but still ok).
Books: On the fiction side, any of the Bob Lee Swagger ones would probably give you sniper plot ideas from both sides, and there is the Sniper Elite book series as well. On the non-fiction side, I heartily recommend Sniper One, an account of a British sniper section's experiences during the defence of CIMIC-House (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIMIC-House). It's an excellent read. Cold Zero is another good one, written by a former sniper on the FBI Hostage Rescue Team. I also enjoyed Marine Sniper, about Sergeant Carlos Hathcock and his experiences as a sniper in the Vietnam War.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2015 4:06:27 GMT -8
And because I am a bit of a gun nut, the man is correct. A magazine, or mag, is what most people understand a clip to be. A magazine can be internal or external and come in many forms besides (box, tube, etc). Rounds of amunition are loaded onto a clip which is then pushed into the mag on an old rifle like an M1 garand.
This only really matters in game with said old rifles. The clip used there is called a stripper clip and is ejected with a loud Ping! when you fire the last round. This was known tothe enemy who would then pop out to kill you. Some of our boys figured this out and would keep a spare in their pocket to throw out to trick the opposition. Yay history!
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Post by ericfromnj on Oct 27, 2015 4:13:30 GMT -8
We had a Delta Green CoC scenario where I got to play the sniper and another player was my spotter out of desperation. Due to his inexperience at the position and the panic going on around us (it was Call of Cthulhu, so there were failed san checks and unexpected adversaries running around) there was one slight incident of friendly fire due to the spotter.
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Post by yojimbohawkins on Oct 27, 2015 5:59:00 GMT -8
Shadowrun is a d6 system, so I'm not really sure where your GM got rolling a d10 from, Tim!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2015 6:11:56 GMT -8
Shadowrun is a d6 system, so I'm not really sure where your GM got rolling a d10 from, Tim! I've seen GM's do a similar thing a lot. They don't know what to do and aren't comfortable adjudicating, so they roll a random die vs some random target in their head to figure it out slash shift blame off of themselves for what happens.
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Post by weaselcreature on Oct 27, 2015 7:03:55 GMT -8
Thanks for the heads up on Craft Check, Kimi! Just last night, my wife and I, along with a friend, were lamenting (again) InBev's acquisition of Golden Road Brewery and how we'd have to increase our online checking of beers to see who makes them.
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Post by Probie Tim on Oct 27, 2015 8:04:52 GMT -8
Shadowrun is a d6 system, so I'm not really sure where your GM got rolling a d10 from, Tim! It was an amazing number of years ago. My memory could be of the wack.
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Post by mook on Oct 27, 2015 9:01:49 GMT -8
Haven't been able to listen yet, but at least tangentially related: Steam had a great sale on Sniper Elite 2 and 3 a few weeks back (sorry, it's back to full price now), and playing 2 has been a total blast (and can't wait for 3). I still whip out the Titanfall if I want the chaos and adrenaline, but it's really fun sneaking around and taking out like a dozen guys without being seen. Bonus points for the "X-Ray/Close-up Camera of Death" option they have. Now, you too can see exactly, precisely, which bones and organs your bullet is takin' out! Sniper or Sniper/Spotter sounds like it could be a pretty awesome 2-3 player game with folks who were into it. Also... GURPS likes snipers. A lot. That particular rifle is 7d pi damage per shot... a possible 42 points. If that's a head shot, it's quadrupled. Hope ya bought the Luck advantage, buddy!
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Oct 27, 2015 9:14:32 GMT -8
mook: There's an expansion where you are tasked with killing Hitler. The game gets historically accurate if you try to shoot him in the ball. Also, the Zombie Trilogy lends a good example or two on how to make Snipers dynamic. In that game you obviously can't always stick to one spot or the zombie horde will over take you. You commonly have to switch from your super accurate sniper rifle to other weapons when zombies get too close or the zombies are replaced with hard to kill uber skeletons.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2015 10:27:37 GMT -8
Just like slitting a helpless persons throat, sometimes the rules need to be put aside. We all know the outcome, so why are we rolling dice and looking to rule books? Do we know the outcome, though? I mean, these aren't normal people in any sense of the term; these are orcs or superheroes or something. Any one of us would probably die from a knife to the throat and being thrown from a cliff, but our characters are a lot tougher than that. How tough? That's why we have rules - so we can all agree on what happens when you shoot Beowulf or Sabretooth with a sniper rifle. It's what I was saying before, about how the rules of a game should support what the GM would say happens if you just chose to ignore the rules. For a normal human, the GM might expect a slit throat and cliff fall to be fatal, so the rules should tell us that, yes, it actually happens that way. If the GM needs to fudge, because the rules say that slit throat and cliff fall is never fatal to a normal person, then that indicates a significant deficiency in the ruleset.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2015 10:35:15 GMT -8
Do we know the outcome, though? I mean, these aren't normal people in any sense of the term; these are orcs or superheroes or something. Any one of us would probably die from a knife to the throat and being thrown from a cliff, but our characters are a lot tougher than that. How tough? That's why we have rules - so we can all agree on what happens when you shoot Beowulf or Sabretooth with a sniper rifle. It's what I was saying before, about how the rules of a game should support what the GM would say happens if you just chose to ignore the rules. For a normal human, the GM might expect a slit throat and cliff fall to be fatal, so the rules should tell us that, yes, it actually happens that way. If the GM needs to fudge, because the rules say that slit throat and cliff fall is never fatal to a normal person, then that indicates a significant deficiency in the ruleset. No shit. Rules are an abstraction and will always be imperfect or ridiculously complex. Some are worse than others in that regard(d20).
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outofprintGM
Apprentice Douchebag
one man's wilderness is another man's playground
Posts: 59
Preferred Game Systems: anything thts fun for the group to play
Currently Playing: D&D5E, Blood of Heroes, FFG Star Wars,
Currently Running: Blood of Heroes, Night Black Agents, Pathfinder, Rolmaster,FFG Star Wars, Monster of the week,
Favorite Species of Monkey: spider monkey
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Post by outofprintGM on Oct 27, 2015 13:42:12 GMT -8
a few points about snipers in game play
the modern concept of a sniper is no longer the lone warrior that they portray in the movies, a sniper team would be a 3 man team (the shooter, the spotter and the watchman) snipers are oftentimes used as scouts and forward air controllers and spotters for artillery fire. the word Sniper come from the first world war when Scottish game wardens fought in the trenchers, at the end of the first word war no sniper was allowed to take part in victory parades as the officers in command viewed them as murderers not soldiers. the name sniper comes from a game warden who could kill a small Scottish wading bird (the snipe) with one shot.
as to using them in games
as player snipers, taking the shot is the last thing to concentrate on. getting into location and escaping afterwards are the real test for the sniper teams skill.
as NPCs no decent ref wnat to kill characters out of hand so if there is a sniper against them i would kill an none critical npc first of make the hostile sniper a twisted S.O.B. and he shoots to wound rather than kill.
if players are playing a protection stile game give the assassin a quirk like an obsession for shooting from a set range of fixation with a number and will pick hist location accordingly, give the players more points to investigate than they can cover so as the clock counts down to the hit let players locate his sniping point dialing up the drama.
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Post by jazzisblues on Oct 27, 2015 15:21:56 GMT -8
JiB's AP's can currently be found at GM ForgeWyrksI haven't done an RSS feed yet because I was sorting out a streaming issue. Anticipate having an RSS feed and have them up on iTunes by the end of the week. Cheers, JiB P.S. I agree with Stu that if we put both AP channels together it would be an overabundance of content. By keeping them separate we can have more AP's for folks to listen to.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2015 15:49:35 GMT -8
Rules are an abstraction and will always be imperfect or ridiculously complex. Some are worse than others in that regard(d20). It's not that d20 rules are ridiculously abstract or unrealistic; they are most certainly less so than many others. It's just that the d20 ruleset tells a very particular kind of story, which might not be what you're expecting if you're not overly familiar with it. The rules tell us what will happen in certain situations, and if you obviously expect something else to happen, then that sounds like a player/system mis-match issue. A high-level D&D fighter won't die from a fall, for the same reason that The Tick won't die from a fall. The system is good for telling stories where the hero takes a dozen arrows in the back and keeps going. It's not good for telling stories where someone gets shot in the head once and dies instantly.
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