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Post by ericfromnj on Oct 28, 2015 10:13:35 GMT -8
Problem is the people who I see use them the most are new GMs, who don't have the experience to actually modify the adventure, yet they really want a guideline for an adventure.
I wrote in last episode about our new GM and Adventure Paths (or what I still call the Bullshit Train) and it sounds like the person from this episode is dealing with a newer GM also.
I can only conclude that Pathfinder/D20 (with an adventure path) is a bad idea for how to get a new GM going. Problem is I can't really offer any alternatives because I cut my GMing teeth on D&D in my youth so the concept of GMing was not new when I learned other systems, so I can't even offer an alternative to railroads r' us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 10:21:08 GMT -8
Criticize the d20 ruleset all you want, because everyone loves to dish on d20 these days* (geeks can be so fickle, worse than the worst excesses of the fashionista's of the cat walk scene, at times) but at least lay the allegations of failure at the right doorstep . . . in this case it was us (the player's and the GM's) and not the (original) system. It could have also been a deliberate change, by the time of later editions. The various editions have a long tradition of non-linear scaling, so even if you should fall exponentially faster over time, there's no reason why that should necessarily mean exponential damage - in the same way that a Storm Giant with Strength 25 isn't five times as strong as a kobold with Strength 5. And it's unfair to judge any game by its optional rules that were released outside of the core book, especially given how contradictory they can be. The real lethality of early fall damage came about because so few character had any meaningful bonus HP from Constitution, and because that bonus stopped applying after level ten or so. Massive Damage or not, a level 20 cleric in AD&D might have total HP within one standard deviation of terminal velocity damage, and default rules still just said you were dead when you hit zero. Massive Damage in 3.x meant that you could still be fairly high-level and a long fall would force a Fortitude save, and a saving throw is something that does automatically fail on a 1. As for 5E, their... unique... take on damage overflow means that you would only die outright if you were severely injured prior to the fall, and you could otherwise survive terminal velocity with maximum HP as low as 40. There's a good chance that you could bleed out, though, which is probably a happy medium for the purposes of narrative convention. (The fact that you could recover from such a fall by sleeping for eight hours is somewhat less justifiable.)
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Post by Kainguru on Oct 28, 2015 10:44:03 GMT -8
Criticize the d20 ruleset all you want, because everyone loves to dish on d20 these days* (geeks can be so fickle, worse than the worst excesses of the fashionista's of the cat walk scene, at times) but at least lay the allegations of failure at the right doorstep . . . in this case it was us (the player's and the GM's) and not the (original) system. It could have also been a deliberate change, by the time of later editions. The various editions have a long tradition of non-linear scaling, so even if you should fall exponentially faster over time, there's no reason why that should necessarily mean exponential damage - in the same way that a Storm Giant with Strength 25 isn't five times as strong as a kobold with Strength 5. And it's unfair to judge any game by its optional rules that were released outside of the core book, especially given how contradictory they can be. The real lethality of early fall damage came about because so few character had any meaningful bonus HP from Constitution, and because that bonus stopped applying after level ten or so. Massive Damage or not, a level 20 cleric in AD&D might have total HP within one standard deviation of terminal velocity damage, and default rules still just said you were dead when you hit zero. Massive Damage in 3.x meant that you could still be fairly high-level and a long fall would force a Fortitude save, and a saving throw is something that does automatically fail on a 1. As for 5E, their... unique... take on damage overflow means that you would only die outright if you were severely injured prior to the fall, and you could otherwise survive terminal velocity with maximum HP as low as 40. There's a good chance that you could bleed out, though, which is probably a happy medium for the purposes of narrative convention. (The fact that you could recover from such a fall by sleeping for eight hours is somewhat less justifiable.) I really want to see what happens when they start releasing the modular rule options to tweak the game for the edition flavour you want. Which WoTC have promised, but with their current round of staff cuts I think we'll be waiting a quite awhile yet . . . The SwordCoast Guide has only just been released and that's their premiere product as it is supposed to underpin all the Epic Adventures currently on tap (Tiamat, Elemental Evil etc) (which in turn are the backbones of all the Adventurers League Games) Aaron
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
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Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Oct 28, 2015 11:06:20 GMT -8
Criticize the d20 ruleset all you want, because everyone loves to dish on d20 these days* * in 15 years it's gone from being the savior of the hobby to being something akin to the repellent second cousin with webbed feet . . . I just want to point out that I hated d20 from the moment they introduced the d20 branding. Never once did I think it would "save the industry" for years I thought that it and Magic had conspired the Fuck the industry up.
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Post by Kainguru on Oct 28, 2015 11:09:58 GMT -8
Criticize the d20 ruleset all you want, because everyone loves to dish on d20 these days* * in 15 years it's gone from being the savior of the hobby to being something akin to the repellent second cousin with webbed feet . . . I just want to point out that I hated d20 from the moment they introduced the d20 branding. Never once did I think it would "save the industry" for years I thought that it and Magic had conspired the Fuck the industry up. But it has it's place - I don't play Magic but I can see the appeal and know people who do play it and enjoy it immensely. It's like asparagus - seems everyone loves it except me (thus I am the only sane person in this world of green yuk aka asparagus) Aaron
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fredrix
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Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Oct 28, 2015 13:14:11 GMT -8
I'm not saying I was right to think that, of course. As Shannon Applecline has taught me, d20 gave a lot of young designers their first pay check. So even if I don't like d20 games, I'm reaping the benefit of their legacy.
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tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
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Post by tomes on Oct 28, 2015 14:26:15 GMT -8
Unrelated to the topic at hand, I think it is time Saelorn gets an avatar. He's over 150 posts in. AVATAR! AVATAR! AVATAR! (for no other reason than I'm really curious what it would be)
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Post by joecrak on Oct 28, 2015 15:59:44 GMT -8
Unrelated to the topic at hand, I think it is time Saelorn gets an avatar. He's over 150 posts in. AVATAR! AVATAR! AVATAR! (for no other reason than I'm really curious what it would be) Mechanics. As for d20. I bash it now, because I no longer enjoy it. It was a gateway drug for me, because it's all my friends knew of. I know so much more now, that i feel no need to go back.
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Oct 28, 2015 18:28:54 GMT -8
As for d20. I bash it now, because I no longer enjoy it. It was a gateway drug for me, because it's all my friends knew of. I know so much more now, that i feel no need to go back. This. Exactly and totally this. I bash d20 and praise hippie games because I no longer enjoy the former but love the latter. I want everyone to experience the same "gamer epiphany" I did, and see it as my job to get everyone to at least try hippie games once. I realize that makes me a hippie gamer Jehovah's Witness.
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Post by joecrak on Oct 28, 2015 20:30:08 GMT -8
As for d20. I bash it now, because I no longer enjoy it. It was a gateway drug for me, because it's all my friends knew of. I know so much more now, that i feel no need to go back. This. Exactly and totally this. I bash d20 and praise hippie games because I no longer enjoy the former but love the latter. I want everyone to experience the same "gamer epiphany" I did, and see it as my job to get everyone to at least try hippie games once. I realize that makes me a hippie gamer Jehovah's Witness. Plus...isn't the stereotype of D&D (and other d20) gamers one of being hairy and smelly? Shouldn't they be called the hippie gamers?
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Oct 28, 2015 20:40:49 GMT -8
I don't think the stereotypical image of a hippie is fat, though. Those D&D / d20 / OSR players now...
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Post by joecrak on Oct 28, 2015 20:47:05 GMT -8
Yea...that's the problem....but Gygax was a total hippie.
Also, that Solo player game. Do not use Savage Worlds. Use something much lighter. I would recommend Fate Accelerated, making the character together on that could be super collaborative and easy.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
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Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
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Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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HJRP 15-17
Oct 28, 2015 22:08:39 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by fredrix on Oct 28, 2015 22:08:39 GMT -8
Yeah, Savage Worlds doesn't seem the best choice for a solo game.
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Oct 28, 2015 22:10:44 GMT -8
Yeah, Savage Worlds doesn't seem the best choice for a solo game. There. Fixed that for you.
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Post by Kainguru on Oct 28, 2015 23:52:38 GMT -8
It's the D20 bashing that's pisses me off - 'because you no longer enjoy it'. That's a bit like me bashing the 'jungle gyms' in the local park, that the kids still enjoy, because I'm old and fat and don't like hanging upside down anymore. We all get sick of stuff because we either outgrow it or over indulge but that doesn't make it inherently wrong - it just makes us look like hipster fucktards with a nerd complex. In the several years I've listened to the podcast, which marks the end of my gaming hiatus, I've seen the gaming community go thru several 'next gen'/'new'/'revolutionary'/etc etc games. Games they've sung praises for and virtually sacrificed small goats and children in veneration. The same games those same gamers now disown and treat with distain like those games are no better than a used up crack whore after the deed is done. Seriously, we should be better than this . . . Aaron
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