HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Mar 14, 2016 19:23:54 GMT -8
i might make cuts in social skills by not starting with any social skills. i might have to delay a few edges till later. i might need some attributes in place of edges to cheapen the skills and meet the requirements of edges i plan to take later. i might need to take some hindrances, maybe take small, retrap outsider as Socially Awkward, and take a minor Habit. maybe Sugar. What game is this for again?
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Post by ilina on Mar 14, 2016 19:36:51 GMT -8
i was using Savage Worlds as an Example of how i could theoretically make the cuts. i mean, i have never had a GM that let me bother with using a social skill. so generally, they end up useless for me unless there is a rule for bartering prices. so my investments in a social skill tend to be worthless. i could say "i try to persuade the raiders into beleiving we have nothing of value" and the GM will tell me "Autofail". because all the clever things i try to do with social skills, tend to get rejected.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Mar 14, 2016 19:47:19 GMT -8
i was using Savage Worlds as an Example of how i could theoretically make the cuts. i mean, i have never had a GM that let me bother with using a social skill. so generally, they end up useless for me unless there is a rule for bartering prices. so my investments in a social skill tend to be worthless. i could say "i try to persuade the raiders into beleiving we have nothing of value" and the GM will tell me "Autofail". because all the clever things i try to do with social skills, tend to get rejected. I'll be blunt here. You have a shit GM then. Stop playing with them.
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Post by ilina on Mar 14, 2016 19:56:29 GMT -8
i was using Savage Worlds as an Example of how i could theoretically make the cuts. i mean, i have never had a GM that let me bother with using a social skill. so generally, they end up useless for me unless there is a rule for bartering prices. so my investments in a social skill tend to be worthless. i could say "i try to persuade the raiders into beleiving we have nothing of value" and the GM will tell me "Autofail". because all the clever things i try to do with social skills, tend to get rejected. I'll be blunt here. You have a shit GM then. Stop playing with them. i learned bad powergamer habits from a bad GM. still learning to balance characters. Combat was his primary focus, and everybody needed combat skill and i was bullied (pressured) into playing a mage (or the equivalent) because the bad GM focused too much on the combat and a mage was able to clear the trash mobs the group didn't wish to spend 4 out of 6 hours slogging through or heal fallen party members back into the fight during a hard combat. so generally, i ended up being the mage, the psion, the artificer, whatever you want to call it. the character that Packs the AoE Damage, the Combat Rezzes, the Dispels, the buffs and the Heals because nobody else wanted to deal with it. in one of my stories pertaining to the campaigns i played under him, i mentioned his 20-something year old librarian's assistant who had better combat ability than a damned navy seal he included as an NPC to attack the party with, the same NPC who had none of the skills a librarians assistant should, but had all the needed combat perks to be the best fighter in the room, because the NPC was meant to flip out and kick party ass. yes, one of the PCs was a Navy Seal Veteran of 45 years and he got his ass handed to him by a 23 year old NPC librarian's assistant that shouldn't have been capable of doing what she did. the bad habits i learned, made it hard for me to find another group, because i am tainted with a horrible upbringing that came from said GM. a taint that makes it hard to balance player characters because it is a group of combat junkies in a primarily combat oriented game. playing a true noncombatant or pacifist is pretty much being useless for 90% of each session.
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Post by Forresst on Mar 14, 2016 20:50:08 GMT -8
Ok my turn to be blunt, now. Your table doesn't fit you, and frankly I'm kind of sad that they decided to get you to play with them not for everyone's fun, but so you could serve a purpose for them. That's not a healthy dynamic at a table.
I understand the hesitation to find a different group, but I'm going to advocate for trying. You shouldn't call yourself "tainted", that's taking on too much responsibility for someone else's damage. You had a rough start. So did we all, really. I spent the first 3 years of my gaming life playing RIFTS with a guy who made nothing but an endless parade of invisible turncoat PCs and another guy who decided the fights weren't taking long enough. It blew. But we move on. And you can too.
The beauty of the internet is, you get a lot more options. Try sitting in at a JAckercon game sometime, even if you don't feel up to playing. I guarantee you there will not be one game where it's nothing but a fight. It just won't happen.
The reason I'm taking this tack with you is that you seem to know there's something a little off with your experience, and you seem willing to work with people. That's the kind of thing I know makes for a good player if you're at a good table.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Mar 14, 2016 21:23:57 GMT -8
I wholeheartedly agree with Forresst here. It's absolute shit that your group forced you into a certain role and to play a specific way. A game should be fun for everyone at the table. Sure, everyone will have to compromise a little and won't get exactly what they want, but that's the nature of being part of a group. It sounds to me like your group, or at least the GM, is flat out mistreating you ilina. No one seems to be willing to compromise to give you some of what you want. I think you need to honestly answer to the follow question: Do you enjoy playing with this group? If the answer is "yes", then that's cool. Keep on playing. Just be aware that things probably will not change. If the answer is "no", then for god's sake stop playing with them. These games are meant to be fun, and if you aren't having fun, then what's the point of playing? Not playing in any game is better than playing in a game you aren't having fun with. Don't stay in the game equivalent of an abusive relationship just because there isn't something else to join. If you leave the group and go looking for a better one, there is the chance you'll find one. But staying where you are now guarantees that things will not change at all. My advice is to pull the ripcord and bail on this group. You don't have to be mean about it, mind. Just tell them you want something different and leave.
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Post by ilina on Mar 14, 2016 21:34:47 GMT -8
it has fun highly lethal combat encounters and i enjoy the references made by the other players. but really, my problem, is when i come to it, it is little more than a glorified game of attrition that i can simply turn on Tactical Mode for. because i shouldn't be going there for the narrative, the group does beer and pretzels hack and slash very well. i guess, instead of trying to see that group as playing an RPG, i should see them as more akin to running a skirmish wargame.
i can learn in a completely different group on the side, and i will only be able to attend every other saturday because of my grandmother's recent surgery. i enjoy the group and i shouldn't force it to change. the combat is highly lethal but highly enjoyable, like a good roguelike.
i would love some new groups to replace the other campaigns that got indefinitely suspended. i spent the latter 11 out of 20 years in that group.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Mar 14, 2016 21:40:51 GMT -8
it has fun highly lethal combat encounters and i enjoy the references made by the other players. but really, my problem, is when i come to it, it is little more than a glorified game of attrition that i can simply turn on Tactical Mode for. because i shouldn't be going there for the narrative, the group does beer and pretzels hack and slash very well. i guess, instead of trying to see that group as playing an RPG, i should see them as more akin to running a skirmish wargame. i can learn in a completely different group on the side, and i will only be able to attend every other saturday because of my grandmother's recent surgery. i enjoy the group and i shouldn't force it to change. the combat is highly lethal but highly enjoyable, like a good roguelike. i would love some new groups to replace the other campaigns that got indefinitely suspended. I feel like you just gave the "he beats me but I know he still loves me" excuse for domestic abuse. Can you reduce that to a simple yes or no?
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Post by Forresst on Mar 14, 2016 21:44:41 GMT -8
Yeah, I'd look at the group you're with as a nice group for sometimes, but not nearly wide enough in scope to be your primary group. Play when you can with your other group, and I bet you'll find after a little while, that you're surprised how much less you're into the roguelike fighting group.
And like I said, keep an eye open for even other groups. Every group is different. Sometimes you gotta wade through an ocean of crud to find your table.
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Post by ilina on Mar 14, 2016 22:00:31 GMT -8
i agree it is a nice group for sometimes. but it isn't wide enough in scope to be my primary. i would however, love a good skype group or play by post. i do enjoy it though.
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Post by Kainguru on Mar 15, 2016 2:40:20 GMT -8
I'm absolutely loving the fact that HyveMynd has engaged in a discussion about Savage Worlds There is one thing that comes to mind: the other systems that use a classes/archetypes, a system heavily criticised. BUT it has just occurred to me that benefit of having an Archetype/Class system is that you can use a given Archetype that suits Your personality preference to create a PC which can then, within the context of the given Archetype, let You explore ways to experience RPing outside of Your usual tropes. OR you can do it the other way around, bring your usual RP tropes to an Archetype that isn't consistent with Your personality preferences - playing within the rules structure of that Archetype to push, but not break, the limits. For example: I usually play Bards, 'cause well 'Bard'. I like the RP aspect of the Archetype, etc etc (and as I've said in another thread the mechanical side of the Archetype is neither here nor there). But all my Bards have been wildly different: one was a 'thruthseeker type', another was a 'Jack Rackham type' (if you've seen BlackSails, though this was before BlackSails aired . . . so coincidence) and another was an 'agitator/schemer' (fond of hurling insults at opponents but petrified of 1 to 1 combat, preferring to manipulate circumstances to the party's best advantage first). Conversely I have enjoyed playing a Paladin, not an Archetype that attracts me on a personal level, and thru that I discovered that I can be as Fascist as the next person when given the Authority of The Law and the Religious Conviction to believe I (my PC) held the Moral Higher Ground. I'm still not sure if a public execution is really consistent with being a Paladin, noting that the 'evil doer' concerned was definitely guilty and unrepentant, the public part was a demonstration in maintaining public order, to reassure the innocent and as a warning to the 'evil doer's' undiscovered co-conspirators - noting on a real world personal level, consistent with the culture I have grown up and live in, I'm opposed to the Death Penalty . . . As to the Group Dissonance - yeah the GM is a fault, s/he should be trying to balance the playing needs of all the Players. Sometimes time, geography and the out of game social dynamic don't permit a wide choice in groups: at this point a clever GM will bring a Group together is such a way as to exploit the divergent play styles to make a truly good game, as each session s/he will play to each Players strengths and weaknesses in turn. The spotlight shifts almost logically, but such games tend to be more prep heavy as the GM has consider the various Player needs before hand and craft an appropriate series of encounters . . . all the while prepping contingencies for when 'Players Meet Plot'. I one group I had I knew I had to have at least one combat planned each session for the combat monkey's as well as a heavy social encounter for the RPer's and an 'informative encounter' for the 'knowledge seekers' . . . Aaron
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Mar 15, 2016 3:03:15 GMT -8
I'm absolutely loving the fact that HyveMynd has engaged in a discussion about Savage Worlds There is one thing that comes to mind: the other systems that use a classes/archetypes, a system heavily criticised. BUT it has just occurred to me that benefit of having an Archetype/Class system is that you can use a given Archetype that suits Your personality preference to create a PC which can then, within the context of the given Archetype, let You explore ways to experience RPing outside of Your usual tropes. OR you can do it the other way around, bring your usual RP tropes to an Archetype that isn't consistent with Your personality preferences - playing within the rules structure of that Archetype to push, but not break, the limits. You are right of course, and when you think about it, a fun RPG experience comes from what the character does in-game, rather than what the character did, or where they came from before the shared story actually starts. In fact one of the things I loved about Feng Shui was that there was hardly any character creation (there's even less in Feng Shui 2). You just chose an archetype, "the Bruiser", "the Scrappy Kid", "the Spy", "the Gambler" and then had to work through roleplaying to make them unique. I just finished a Night's Black Agents campaign, and after a few sessions, we aquired three more players. We were part-way though an operation, so I said that for that session, I'd give them pre-gens that fitted the bank raid that was about to go down, but they could create their own characters befor the next session. But by the end of the session, they had inhabited those pre-gens and made them their own.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2016 10:07:12 GMT -8
i was using Savage Worlds as an Example of how i could theoretically make the cuts. i mean, i have never had a GM that let me bother with using a social skill. so generally, they end up useless for me unless there is a rule for bartering prices. so my investments in a social skill tend to be worthless. i could say "i try to persuade the raiders into beleiving we have nothing of value" and the GM will tell me "Autofail". because all the clever things i try to do with social skills, tend to get rejected. I'll be blunt here. You have a shit GM then. Stop playing with them. I would agree with HyveMynd and Forresst....it is time to keep an eye out for another group. In my Outlaw Star sci fi Savage Worlds game, the droid character tried to persuade a guard he had to get by with a d4-2 social skill. He rolled, failed, used a benny, and proceeded to roll a 34 due to exploding die. He got by the guard without issue. It sounds like your GM needs a better understanding of the collaborative storytelling aspect of rpgs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2016 10:11:01 GMT -8
ilina I think if you keep an eye out for groups that will help you grow as a player and better utilize system and setting in a way that emphasizes the collective narrative (which is present in good games), some of these repetitive character and unique snowflake issues will resolve themselves. If you don't have to fight for every character concept and skill roll, you will be less likely to over do it when you try to stand out and break character tropes.
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Post by ayslyn on Mar 15, 2016 11:51:17 GMT -8
it has fun highly lethal combat encounters and i enjoy the references made by the other players. but really, my problem, is when i come to it, it is little more than a glorified game of attrition that i can simply turn on Tactical Mode for. because i shouldn't be going there for the narrative, the group does beer and pretzels hack and slash very well. i guess, instead of trying to see that group as playing an RPG, i should see them as more akin to running a skirmish wargame. i can learn in a completely different group on the side, and i will only be able to attend every other saturday because of my grandmother's recent surgery. i enjoy the group and i shouldn't force it to change. the combat is highly lethal but highly enjoyable, like a good roguelike. i would love some new groups to replace the other campaigns that got indefinitely suspended. I feel like you just gave the "he beats me but I know he still loves me" excuse for domestic abuse. Can you reduce that to a simple yes or no? Seriously?! WTF is wrong with you. She has a bunch of friends who eat nothing but Italian. She likes Italian but also loves Thai. She's thinking of enjoying Italian with her current group, and scratching her itch for Thai with other friends. That is SO fucking far from excusing domestic abuse that it's pretty fucking disgusting that you even brought it up. Way to go, trivializing a real and fucking serious problem.
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