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Post by RudeAlert on Jul 1, 2017 11:26:48 GMT -8
Regarding the heartbreak of character death, this is something I just cant relate to. I don't think I've ever been bothered by one of my characters dying; I might have felt bothered by having to face failure, especially if it felt like the GM was specifically being a dick. But I don't think I've ever been bothered by losing a character, hell in some cases I arranged for it myself if it felt appropriate for the character. I think one big reason why losing a character doesn't bother me is because I love creating new characters. So for me losing a character is not the end, far from it, it's a chance for a whole new beginning. I get to create a whole new character from scratch and try whole new things and concepts. Maybe I've just never played a single character long enough, or regularly enough to really get that attached but so far character death has never been a problem for me, as long as it didn't feel like I was unfairly targeted by the GM, but that's a whole other problem. The Boba Fett thing that Stork mentioned is Farador, you can check it out for yourselves, it's well worth the time: Part 1 - www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvI1yLWvJigPart 2 - www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReTPMme1nS4
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Jul 2, 2017 6:52:11 GMT -8
So I gave up on Mote, but which episode is that Kimi's character dies* in?
*All the time I was listening, my inner lizard brain was screaming "she "died" before the campaign started, she was finally destroyed in this incident."
On character death, I'm both generally relaxed and satisfied when a character of mine dies. I may feel so,e sadness, but it's a simulacrum of sadness, because, more even that in real life "s/he lives on in my head". In real life we say that about our memories of the dead, but in RPGs their whole existence has only been in my head
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Post by uncommonman on Jul 2, 2017 7:12:00 GMT -8
stork there's a difference between character death and player death and hopefully there won't be any player death for the podcast. But in the end character death is good for the game, now everyone knows that no one is safe if they start trouble or in the case of Moat don't take care of the troubles the NPC's start.
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Post by Probie Tim on Jul 2, 2017 10:13:00 GMT -8
*All the time I was listening, my inner lizard brain was screaming "she "died" before the campaign started, she was finally destroyed in this incident." Yup, she died before the game, and met final death in that incident.
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sdJasper
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 30
Preferred Game Systems: GURPS, Fudge, PDQ
Currently Running: GURPS Traveller Interstellar Wars
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Post by sdJasper on Jul 3, 2017 9:21:19 GMT -8
My GMing mantra: "I don't kill characters, dice do."
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Post by akavidar on Jul 3, 2017 17:55:29 GMT -8
So I gave up on Mote, but which episode is that Kimi's character dies* in? *All the time I was listening, my inner lizard brain was screaming "she "died" before the campaign started, she was finally destroyed in this incident." On character death, I'm both generally relaxed and satisfied when a character of mine dies. I may feel so,e sadness, but it's a simulacrum of sadness, because, more even that in real life "s/he lives on in my head". In real life we say that about our memories of the dead, but in RPGs their whole existence has only been in my head Mote 28
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TheGerkuman
Apprentice Douchebag
Why you no problem make
Posts: 76
Preferred Game Systems: Any variety of D&D or WFRP 2e.
Currently Playing: Anything I can find
Currently Running: I haven't run in a long time. Either sort.
Favorite Species of Monkey: Capuchin or Spider.
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Post by TheGerkuman on Jul 4, 2017 3:13:04 GMT -8
Thanks for the jackercon reminder, sadly it was probably a couple of weeks too late, but still appreciated. I think we're going to need to advertise further afield next time. (How jackercon players make when you no have etc.)
Also, I was listening the podcast at work and when the chorus of the song came on, my first thought was 'you bastards!' It's difficult enough to keep myself together normally!
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Post by Stu Venable on Jul 4, 2017 21:08:18 GMT -8
I'm very bad at remembering to promote Jackercon, so I encourage everyone to remind me incessantly to promote it on the show, starting maybe 4 weeks out.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2017 23:02:42 GMT -8
I have to call out something that was said on the cast. "When your character makes a great roll" was an example of something to get pumped up over. Really? I understand the inherent reward of sucess, but doesn't that good feeling come more from seeing the result of your choices? Let's give an example:
Johnie Storm shoots a fire bolt at Magma Man. He rolls excellently on his attack and his damage roll. You'd think he'd be over the rainbow right? Well, maybe not. Johnie might embarrass himself by prematurely celebrating, because Manama Man is immune to fire and heat damage. Maybe he's only mostly immune (because it would be a dick move to even ask the player to roll when the only outcome is "he takes no damage"). Either way, the end result is dismal and his player is not on cloud 9, because the die roll is never what mattered. It's always been the effect of the die roll.
You see, newbies tell stories about their good die rolls. There is a reason for this: they don't understand the game yet. Rolling a 20 is no cause for celebration in and of itself. Further, feeling happy about something you had no control over is another sign of a newbie. Did your decisions make a lick of a difference, or is the whole thing pure luck(/screw job)? The rolls you should feel happy about are the ones where you can see your decisions as having made a difference.
I understand that sometimes you are just happy to have passed the roll. I get it. In the end though, that makes for a shallow victory. Winning at Candy Land says nothing about you as a player. The same thing can be said for die rolls (especially in games with flat distributions!).
You want some ultimate proof? Sit down with a set of whatever dice you want. Roll them. Tell me if you get your rocks off on good rolls. No? That's because it's the contect of those rolls that make them exciting. Your gambling on a set of stakes. Good gamblers all have one thing in common, they excercise their ability to control the outcome. So when those good gamblers win, they can say its because of X,Y, & Z; not blind luck.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2017 0:19:08 GMT -8
On the subject of 'leveling and MMO's, you guys don't have the whole story. Every MMO I've ever played included trainers or scrolls to learn some if not all of your abilities. Your stats might go up immediately, but you might have to go back to town to visit the trainer before you could get a new ability.
As far as the whole "I've been practicing this whole time" thing, sure you have. I'm sure you engage in the dangerous practice of spell research while in the wilderness without your tools and instruments. What could go wrong? And of course your fighter is sparring every night at camp. He must be carrying around his practice sword and maybe a pell too! Never mind the noise that is going to make that might attract monsters. No big deal, right?
In short, bullshit. Soldiers don't train while on combat missions. They are too busy being on said mission. It's no different for adventurers. You are gaining practical experiance, that is true, but practical experiance won't teach an old dog a new trick. Practical experiance hones the tricks you already know (and many people would tell you that people revert to their lowest standard of training instead of rising to meet challenges in these types of settings).
D&D might actually be a more interesting game if players were required to train and acquire the needed space/items to actually improve. The reward for certain quests or activities might merely be access to said trainers. After all, masters don't want to waste their time on the unworthy. You might have to journey just to meet these famed personalities. In a manner, these games could pick up certain tropes from martial arts movies.
Tying this back in to the beginning of the episode, trainers are someone the player characters must care about. Certainly you will oppose the evil empire if they falsely imprisson your sword master. You do want to be able to improve at fighting, right?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2017 0:39:18 GMT -8
In response to the question about the required distance for a lethal fall in PbtA: Your question is wrong. PbtA is not a game of specifications. I'll tell you if you think the fall might be lethal. How many feet tall it actually is DOES NOT MATTER. The game is not measured in feet or inches. You don't have a rate of movement. None of this matters.
This system works for a reason. That reason is that people are people and not demigods. You won't go from human to falling off cliffs and being fine. There is a strong baseline that doesn't deviate. It's not D&D where my rating of how lethal a fall is will change based on who you are. If you are a person than a lethal fall is a lethal fall.
As an MC I'm not going to argue about this kind of trivial shit. If you need a number I will give you one. If you then try to debate if that distance would really be lethal or not I'll kick you out of my game. That quick. I told you how lethal the fall was. I'm not changing that or letting you lawyer your way out of it by asking for the actual distance. The actual distance does not matter. How tall is it? Tall enough that you'll break your neck and die if you fall off.
My players don't need to know the rules because my principles demand honesty from me. I will tell them. It's that simple.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2017 1:49:52 GMT -8
Wow aren't you a bundle of joy today. You seem to be really missing the point when it comes to great rolls, people tend to get excited about a great roll when it comes at a critical moment in the game. The times when they kill the big bad just before they unleash a great evil, or when they make the seemingly impossible shot to hit the dragon in it's one weak spot.
Ultimately it doesn't matter that it's a random chance, especially with natural 20's where many GMs let even the near impossible suddenly succeed. People intuitively like succeeding against the odds, even when that success is purely down to luck. It's human nature so to call people newbies for enjoying those moments is pure douchebaggery.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2017 4:48:08 GMT -8
Wow aren't you a bundle of joy today. You seem to be really missing the point when it comes to great rolls, people tend to get excited about a great roll when it comes at a critical moment in the game. The times when they kill the big bad just before they unleash a great evil, or when they make the seemingly impossible shot to hit the dragon in it's one weak spot. Ultimately it doesn't matter that it's a random chance, especially with natural 20's where many GMs let even the near impossible suddenly succeed. People intuitively like succeeding against the odds, even when that success is purely down to luck. It's human nature so to call people newbies for enjoying those moments is pure douchebaggery. It's douchebaggery to suggest that tastes mature? I see you ignored a good deal of my premise where I made the point that what people like is outcomes, not rolls. It's so true that people ignore the rules to let near impossible things happen because they prefer that outcome to the one the rules favors.
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Post by Probie Tim on Jul 6, 2017 5:40:12 GMT -8
I made the point that what people like is outcomes, not rolls. But it's the roll that generates the outcome. In a system that allows for critical hits on a 1d20 roll of 20, or on a d% roll of 5% or less, it can be exciting to some people to see the dice pop up like that before you even know what the outcome will be. In response to the question about the required distance for a lethal fall in PbtA: Your question is wrong. Actually, I think you're looking at it wrong. The question I was trying to ask was "how do I, as a player, know if a fall from this wall could be lethal or not?" And based on your post, the answer is "the GM will tell you if it could be lethal or not". Which is vastly different from a d20 style game, where the player can look at the wall, see that it's 10 feet high, know that a fall from it could cause 10d6 worth of damage, and make a judgement call if they want to jump off it or not based on game mechanics, not on how the GM sees a fall from it. As far as the whole "I've been practicing this whole time" thing, sure you have. I'm sure you engage in the dangerous practice of spell research while in the wilderness without your tools and instruments. What could go wrong? I'm pretty sure that characters are not out adventuring every waking minute between reaching level X and level X+1. There is down-time, time between adventures, time accounted for as "so... a couple of weeks go by". It's during those times that the characters are researching, sparring, whatever. You could very easily say that one night while on a ship sailing the seas between adventures, the wizard stumbles upon a way to put together two different bits of magic and create a fireball. Granted, that's all theory, because the wizard is only going through spell-books and scrolls, but when they reach shore the wizard looks for a place to test the theory and discovers that it will work! Viola, once the wizard levels up, they get the fireball spell.
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Post by vyrrk on Jul 6, 2017 11:32:55 GMT -8
Well... I get what your saying Steven. And I agree most of the time. People want the drama and the story moment more then the dice roll. HOWEVER... My group still talks about the time in Savage Worlds where someone rolled a 46 damage on a toughness 4 minion bat. They explain in great detail how the bat of zero consequence or story was turned into a fine red paste. I really think people like both... dice and story.
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