sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on Oct 3, 2015 5:19:17 GMT -8
yup, Mage20 is out. I just about spooged when your enthusiasm hit me.
However...
The 20th anniversary book is a HUGE tome. Good luck.
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Post by stork on Oct 3, 2015 7:15:37 GMT -8
I got the print on demand and the PDF. Boy are they in love with their world. The first few chapters are on definitions and setting. 80 pages in and it's still all about what the definition of a Node and Tass are. I guess it's important that I know that Resonance is the flavor between Quintessence and Tass......sheesh. Lemee make a mage already!
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Post by stork on Oct 3, 2015 7:31:33 GMT -8
Oh, one thing I meant to mention last night about co-gming was to always agree with your co GM. If they go somewhere you didn't expect, don't stop the game and and say "No! what are you doing?" It makes the players uneasy if you two are arguing in front of them.
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on Oct 3, 2015 7:55:22 GMT -8
Really, for new players, Second Ed Mage would have been better, imho. The mighty Mage20 tome could kill a small child.
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Post by Probie Tim on Oct 3, 2015 8:52:33 GMT -8
Mage20 is, indeed, monstrous big. Seems to be a trend with Onyx Path and the *20 games. Vampire: Dark Ages 20 is also a huge work.
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Benji
Journeyman Douchebag
Alea iacta est
Posts: 176
Preferred Game Systems: Pathfinder, Savage Worlds, V20, D&D 3.5, Castles & Crusades, Monsters & Other Childish Things, Little Fears, TFOS
Currently Playing: Not a damn thing
Currently Running: Pathfinder, Savage Worlds
Favorite Species of Monkey: Cebuella pygmaea
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Post by Benji on Oct 3, 2015 9:09:46 GMT -8
Oh, one thing I meant to mention last night about co-gming was to always agree with your co GM. If they go somewhere you didn't expect, don't stop the game and and say "No! what are you doing?" It makes the players uneasy if you two are arguing in front of them. Completely agree. It's the whole "yes and" technique mentioned on the show and improv technique. Wow I'm having flashbacks to an early show with Greg from Merry Misfits.
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Benji
Journeyman Douchebag
Alea iacta est
Posts: 176
Preferred Game Systems: Pathfinder, Savage Worlds, V20, D&D 3.5, Castles & Crusades, Monsters & Other Childish Things, Little Fears, TFOS
Currently Playing: Not a damn thing
Currently Running: Pathfinder, Savage Worlds
Favorite Species of Monkey: Cebuella pygmaea
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Post by Benji on Oct 3, 2015 9:15:18 GMT -8
I'm reading through the Mage pdf and patiently waiting for my deluxe copy from KS. It's not a light read to be sure.
Oh, for the record I looked up a bunch of the classic Conway/Corman sketches after the snickerfest at the end of the show. Pure comedy gold. Never gets old.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Oct 4, 2015 1:38:23 GMT -8
Yeah. I saw a photo of the Mage 20 book and it looks ridiculously big. Like King Kong should be climbing that thing big. It's actually a turn off for me, as I'll bet that book is prohibitively expensive (especially if you factor in shipping) and I have to wonder how well the binding would hold up. I feel like the 20th anniversary edition books Onyx Path puts out are more collector items than they are game books. Now, on to business. First of all, let's clear something up. It was joecrak who asked a question in the Google Q&A that started my rant at jazzisblues in the live chat. A question that never actually got answered, by the way. He asked, and I'm paraphrasing here, "if the Spirit of '77 game goes well, would the hosts be open to trying other PbtA games, like Monsterhearts". I was not the one to bring up the subject of sexy teenage monsters, just for the record. Thinking about it, I have to give jazzisblues a lot of credit. He was trying to explain Monsterhearts's sex moves while the peanut gallery was snickering at their name. As I said in the live chat, he was absolutely correct that the game's sex moves are about the consequences of being intimate with someone and not about the act itself. I just took issue with his example. He did a decent job considering the circumstances, and if it had been me, I'd probably just said "ah screw you guys" and given up. So kudos to jazzisblues for even trying. Monsterhearts is intended to emulate teen romance books and TV shows, where the characters are constantly creating problems for themselves by sleeping around and getting romantically tangled up with people they shouldn't. The game encourages those sorts of actions by having things happen when characters hook up. Despite being called "sex moves", the moves have nothing to with actually performing the act. They are just mechanical effects that trigger when characters have sex, though some sex moves trigger from other forms of intimacy. Many sex moves are very mechanical, and don't mean much to people who are unfamiliar with how the game works. The best way to explain sex moves without getting bogged down in game jargon is that the effects of sex moves create drama, which is what the whole game is about. For example, one character types is the Chosen, a monster hunter like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. When the Chosen has sex, they heal all of their damage and lose any negative conditions they had. There's a catch though. If the person the Chosen has sex with disgusts them, or if the Chosen is disgusted at themselves for what they're doing, they give their partner a point of mechanical leverage over them to use later on. So the game encourages the Chosen to go out, kick some monster ass, get beat up in the process, and then go find someone to screw so they heal up back to full strength. Another character type is the Mortal, think Sookie Stackhouse from the True Blood series. The Mortal is all about being a victim, getting yourself into trouble, and staying with someone even though they are terrible for you. When the Mortal has sex with someone, their partner becomes monstrous (if they were a monster to begin with), allowing the Mortal to play the victim once again. The Vampire's sex move isn't even sex. When the Vampire denies someone sexually, they gain a point of mechanical leverage over that person. If the Vampire ever does have sex, they lose all the leverage they had over their partner. So the game mechanically encourages the Vampire to be the biggest tease ever, but to not actually do anything. This causes drama as the Vampire has to continue to string people along, and how long can that happen if you never give people what you've been promising? All right. I've typed way too much here, and I promised myself I'd try to keep it short. So, there you go. Sex moves aren't moves performed during sex. They're mechanical effects that trigger after characters get it on, meant to complicate the characters's lives and create drama to push the game forward and emulate teenage romance media. That's probably not cleared anything up, but I tried. It's harder than it looks (that's what she said), and I'll take this down to the Apocalypse World-Based subforum with further questions.
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Post by joecrak on Oct 4, 2015 6:08:05 GMT -8
First of all, let's clear something up. It was joecrak who asked a question in the Google Q&A that started my rant at jazzisblues in the live chat. A question that never actually got answered, by the way. He asked, and I'm paraphrasing here, "if the Spirit of '77 game goes well, would the hosts be open to trying other PbtA games, like Monsterhearts". I was not the one to bring up the subject of sexy teenage monsters, just for the record. Yes I did. For example, one character types is the Chosen, a monster hunter like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. When the Chosen has sex, they heal all of their damage and lose any negative conditions they had. There's a catch though. If the person the Chosen has sex with disgusts them, or if the Chosen is disgusted at themselves for what they're doing, they give their partner a point of mechanical leverage over them to use later on. So the game encourages the Chosen to go out, kick some monster ass, get beat up in the process, and then go find someone to screw so they heal up back to full strength. I highly recommend if you do try MonsterHearts, not to play the Chosen. This playbook intrinsically changes the style of game you are playing. The Chosen turns the game into Monster of the Week, another fun game, which i bet the lot of the hosts would enjoy. Another character type is the Mortal, think Sookie Stackhouse from the True Blood series. The Mortal is all about being a victim, getting yourself into trouble, and staying with someone even though they are terrible for you. When the Mortal has sex with someone, their partner becomes monstrous (if they were a monster to begin with), allowing the Mortal to play the victim once again. The Mortal is my absolute favorite playbook. But yea, while I would love to hear the crew play MonsterHearts, I'm not holding my breath. If Spirit of 77 goes well, I can see you guys finally playing Dungeon World, or Monster of the Week. Heck, knowing how much you guys enjoyed playing L5R, I can point you towards a great hack of it for this system. It will be much easier to remember the rules than it would be to play regular L5R.
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Benji
Journeyman Douchebag
Alea iacta est
Posts: 176
Preferred Game Systems: Pathfinder, Savage Worlds, V20, D&D 3.5, Castles & Crusades, Monsters & Other Childish Things, Little Fears, TFOS
Currently Playing: Not a damn thing
Currently Running: Pathfinder, Savage Worlds
Favorite Species of Monkey: Cebuella pygmaea
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Post by Benji on Oct 4, 2015 8:50:29 GMT -8
Yeah. I saw a photo of the Mage 20 book and it looks ridiculously big. Like King Kong should be climbing that thing big. It's actually a turn off for me, as I'll bet that book is prohibitively expensive (especially if you factor in shipping) and I have to wonder how well the binding would hold up. I feel like the 20th anniversary edition books Onyx Path puts out are more collector items than they are game books. Actually the binding is quite good. I have the deluxe version of Vampire 20th Anniversary and the print on demand version of Werewolf 20th Anniversary and they are indeed monsters (pun not intended) but hold up very well. Yes, the price is steep but I purchased through Kickstarter so it was a little cheaper. After one hiccup with the Vampire companion book, Onyx has been one of the rare companies I still trust on KS. In regards to Monster Hearts and other PbtA games , I may only have guest status but I'd be willing to give them another shot. No fooling. I started rereading DW this weekend in between errands and Xbox One and I believe my first impression was definitely skewed by the GM who really didn't get the whole point of the game. Truthfully, I don't have a problem with small press/indie games. Two of my favorite games right now are small press gems like Monsters & Other Childish Things and Little Fears. EPOCH is another and I'm inrigued by Dread after hearing folks rave about it last con (witness me!!!). Monster Hearts itself would be a game I'd have to play before giving an opinion. The mechanics you describe seem good but you'd need a mature group to play with. If it runs at the next con or other event I'll give it a try. I may not declare PbtA games to be the next messiah of the tabletop but I'm more than willing to give them another go.
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Post by Stu Venable on Oct 4, 2015 10:41:49 GMT -8
Yeah. I saw a photo of the Mage 20 book and it looks ridiculously big. Like King Kong should be climbing that thing big. It's actually a turn off for me, as I'll bet that book is prohibitively expensive (especially if you factor in shipping) and I have to wonder how well the binding would hold up. I feel like the 20th anniversary edition books Onyx Path puts out are more collector items than they are game books. Clearly you've never played HERO.
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on Oct 4, 2015 10:53:09 GMT -8
The thing about Mage20 is how much of it is fluff. There's a lot there, trying to reconcile the three very different tones of Mage 1st ed, 2d ed, and Revised. Plus the additions to the fluff from the Technocracy revised books that painted what was originally the Big Bad of the setting as a playable, even heroic, faction.
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Post by HourEleven on Oct 4, 2015 15:42:04 GMT -8
HyveMyndFor the record, I adore Monster Hearts, I think it's one of the best put together games I've seen in a long time and the PbtA game I really like. I feel like the mechanics perfectly fit the goals and themes.
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Post by joecrak on Oct 4, 2015 17:39:42 GMT -8
Oh, here's something that I think is important for the majority of PbtA games.
Ideal group size: ~6 players. Granted, this varies on which game you are playing, but MonsterHearts with 4 players or less, can be very difficult, as in, drama can be difficult to get going.
4 players is also Pretty small with World Wide Wrestling.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Oct 4, 2015 18:18:32 GMT -8
Clearly you've never played HERO. I have not. Though I think I saw the books on jazzisblues shelf. They were the ones with the metal braces under them, right? Seriously though, isn't HERO mostly rules for how to create things, rather than rules to play? I highly recommend if you do try MonsterHearts, not to play the Chosen. This playbook intrinsically changes the style of game you are playing. The Chosen turns the game into Monster of the Week, another fun game, which i bet the lot of the hosts would enjoy. Yeah. The Chosen is my least favorite official Skin because of how it shifts the focus of the game. They just had one of the easiest sex moves to explain in non-game terms. But yea, while I would love to hear the crew play MonsterHearts, I'm not holding my breath. If Spirit of 77 goes well, I can see you guys finally playing Dungeon World, or Monster of the Week. Heck, knowing how much you guys enjoyed playing L5R, I can point you towards a great hack of it for this system. It will be much easier to remember the rules than it would be to play regular L5R. Yeah, same here. Playing a sexy teenage monster isn't for everyone, and you have to enjoy watching your character crash and burn to enjoy the game. That also is not for everyone. Playing as heroes is an easier sell, which is why Dungeon World and Monster of the Week are more popular games probably. HyveMyndFor the record, I adore Monster Hearts, I think it's one of the best put together games I've seen in a long time and the PbtA game I really like. I feel like the mechanics perfectly fit the goals and themes. That is a huge part of why I like it so much HourEleven. I feel the game is a brilliant example of how mechanics can reinforce and encourage a certain genre and style of play.
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