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Post by uncommonman on Jun 30, 2017 1:50:39 GMT -8
So I was nowhere near the only person unhappy about the grimdark level of the V5 playtest, to the point where White Wolf made an official post about it. You can find it here. And like I said on the podcast, there are some things in the new rules that I'm pretty excited about. I don't know if I'll have time to find/write a different playtest scenario to give official feedback though. I'm a bit twisted so I'm actually more interested in V5 than previous editions.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
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Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Jun 30, 2017 2:01:55 GMT -8
So I was nowhere near the only person unhappy about the grimdark level of the V5 playtest, to the point where White Wolf made an official post about it. You can find it here. And like I said on the podcast, there are some things in the new rules that I'm pretty excited about. I don't know if I'll have time to find/write a different playtest scenario to give official feedback though. I'm a bit twisted so I'm actually more interested in V5 than previous editions. I wonder if this is a Europe/US thing?
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Post by uncommonman on Jun 30, 2017 2:27:15 GMT -8
I'm a bit twisted so I'm actually more interested in V5 than previous editions. I wonder if this is a Europe/US thing? I think so, we have a nice and non violent life and therfore we like dark settings. I think my major gripe with WoD is that its too much Hollywood vampires, even if its dark and horror its still close to PG13. Somthing like this: www.tor.com/2010/10/04/let-the-right-one-in-versus-let-me-in/
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andreasdavour
Patron (Supporter)
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Post by andreasdavour on Jun 30, 2017 3:45:35 GMT -8
I'm starting to wonder about that Martin guy who was the WW rep. There was a guy with that name, very involved in Swedish LARP activities, and totally obsessed with goth culture and style. I'm wondering if it's the same guy.
His picture online is bearded, and the guy I'm thinking of used to be clean shaven, so it's hard to tell. If it's the same guy, he was quite a character, and really into the dark sides of things. I was not really sure about that guy.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Jun 30, 2017 4:06:46 GMT -8
EDIT Took too long to type this which is a reply to uncommonman, not andreasdavour Maybe, though in asking the question, I wasn't (yet) hypothesising why. I was just wondering about the distribution of attitudes. You and I, two Europeans, are, while not exactly "comfortable" with the scenario, both willing to be discomfited by it. Apart from The Northman (I think) the rest of our American friends seem more disturbed. But this is not a scientific sample! It's very small for a start, and self selected. It might just be that we three are outliers. White Wolf claimed that none of their 100 plus playtesters in Berlin raised any concerns, but when it was released world-wide in PDF they obviously got a good deal of negative feedback. Given that we might assume that the majority of the Berlin playtesters were European, I'm interested in knowing the distribution of negative comments across the two continents (and of course, the others). Obviously we'd have normalise the numbers by the number of downloads in each region. THEN we can see if there's any correlation, and start to hypothesise why.
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Post by uncommonman on Jun 30, 2017 4:20:46 GMT -8
I'm starting to wonder about that Martin guy who was the WW rep. There was a guy with that name, very involved in Swedish LARP activities, and totally obsessed with goth culture and style. I'm wondering if it's the same guy. His picture online is bearded, and the guy I'm thinking of used to be clean shaven, so it's hard to tell. If it's the same guy, he was quite a character, and really into the dark sides of things. I was not really sure about that guy. They said something about "club kids" being translated from Swedish so you're probably correct.
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Post by uncommonman on Jun 30, 2017 4:36:25 GMT -8
EDIT Took too long to type this which is a reply to uncommonman, not andreasdavour Maybe, though in asking the question, I wasn't (yet) hypothesising why. I was just wondering about the distribution of attitudes. You and I, two Europeans, are, while not exactly "comfortable" with the scenario, both willing to be discomfited by it. Apart from The Northman (I think) the rest of our American friends seem more disturbed. But this is not a scientific sample! It's very small for a start, and self selected. It might just be that we three are outliers. White Wolf claimed that none of their 100 plus playtesters in Berlin raised any concerns, but when it was released world-wide in PDF they obviously got a good deal of negative feedback. Given that we might assume that the majority of the Berlin playtesters were European, I'm interested in knowing the distribution of negative comments across the two continents (and of course, the others). Obviously we'd have normalise the numbers by the number of downloads in each region. THEN we can see if there's any correlation, and start to hypothesise why. In my opinion the US is strange with your religion, pg violence and your thoughts about nudity so there's a definite cultural difference. I heard the version if cinderella where the stepsister cut of their toes and heels to fit in the shoes when I was a kid so that might also be a factor. It would be interesting to have a discussion about this on the podcast but then they really need a larger number of online guest hosts. For me horror is supposed to have as horrible and dark stories as you can imagine so for me killing people to feed is horror and therfore you might as well feed from children. And if you extrapolate from that you might as well do other stuff to children before killing them. Not something I would have fun doing and I wouldn't describe any details but I have no problem saying "I do my feeding ritual" and know that my character is a monster that does horrible things. One part of playing roleplaying games is to play a role, if that is the role of a monster then that is "fun".
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sbloyd
Supporter
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Post by sbloyd on Jun 30, 2017 5:16:40 GMT -8
I'm starting to wonder about that Martin guy who was the WW rep. There was a guy with that name, very involved in Swedish LARP activities, and totally obsessed with goth culture and style. I'm wondering if it's the same guy. His picture online is bearded, and the guy I'm thinking of used to be clean shaven, so it's hard to tell. If it's the same guy, he was quite a character, and really into the dark sides of things. I was not really sure about that guy. Hard to say, because I'm sure there's more than one guy named Martin in Sweden. But the "Lead Storyteller" in charge at WW now *is* very LARP-centric, and very much goth.
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Post by ayslyn on Jun 30, 2017 9:44:40 GMT -8
Apart from The Northman (I think) the rest of our American friends seem more disturbed. <--- 'Murican not "distubed" per se... Certainly by the concept, but not necessarily by the examination of it....
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
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Post by sbloyd on Jun 30, 2017 10:09:48 GMT -8
I'm not ashamed to say that I don't believe you need to have included children in this context.
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HJRP 19-14
Jun 30, 2017 11:05:40 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by uncommonman on Jun 30, 2017 11:05:40 GMT -8
I'm not ashamed to say that I don't believe you need to have included children in this context. Ome reason might be that they wanted to make the setting darker and went all in with the worst parts in the playtest to know how the audience felt about it. It's easier to remove things from your personal game than to have "if you want to make the setting darker" guidelines.
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shinigamitwo
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Post by shinigamitwo on Jun 30, 2017 11:07:37 GMT -8
I say ter-rif-fy-ing-flesh-ren-ding-mon-ster Let's call the whole thing off! Also dug the idea that the name is as mutable as the clan itself... but forgot to hit ctrl-reply on them so...
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
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Post by sbloyd on Jun 30, 2017 11:14:05 GMT -8
One reason might be that they wanted to make the setting darker and went all in with the worst parts in the playtest to know how the audience felt about it. It's easier to remove things from your personal game than to have "if you want to make the setting darker" guidelines. There's plenty of ways to make a setting dark. Look at the NPC Jan Pieterzoon - a Ventrue who could only feed on rape victims. He supported crisis centers in order to have easy access to his specific meal type... and his enemies destroyed them. So, he took a turn for the darker to meet his dietary needs. There's plenty of darkness out there without including children. It's an arbitrary line, I admit. I spend enough energy *not thinking* about child molestation in my everyday life.
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Post by uncommonman on Jun 30, 2017 11:38:42 GMT -8
One reason might be that they wanted to make the setting darker and went all in with the worst parts in the playtest to know how the audience felt about it. It's easier to remove things from your personal game than to have "if you want to make the setting darker" guidelines. There's plenty of ways to make a setting dark. Look at the NPC Jan Pieterzoon - a Ventrue who could only feed on rape victims. He supported crisis centers in order to have easy access to his specific meal type... and his enemies destroyed them. So, he took a turn for the darker to meet his dietary needs. There's plenty of darkness out there without including children. It's an arbitrary line, I admit. I spend enough energy *not thinking* about child molestation in my everyday life. I think the inclution of children might have been to push the limit and see if it was too far. It worked in the first playtests but obviusly not in the more open tests so we have to see if there is any changes comming.
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Post by ayslyn on Jun 30, 2017 12:13:49 GMT -8
I'm not ashamed to say that I don't believe you need to have included children in this context. To be fair, you don't Need to include any of the edgier elements. Not that kids being your personal line is a problem.
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