|
Post by RudeAlert on Jun 24, 2017 11:02:02 GMT -8
Well actually stork, the rules for Gangrels in Mistform encountering mustard gas are in the Vampire the Masquerade 2nd Edition WW1 sourcebook "Tides of Blood" where it clearly states that such an unfortunate vampire will instantly revert to physical form and spontaneously combust whilst violently spewing caustic blood within a 5-foot radius, all the while reciting Carmen's Habanera in german and sprouting small and grotesque-looking, but pleasant smelling, water lilies out of their bum holes. Yes, the above is made up, all of it. But still! There are rules Stork!!!! Just not for every single situation... though there totally should be rules for Gangrels in mistform encountering mustard gas cuz that would be BADASS!!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 12:38:35 GMT -8
Well actually stork , the rules for Gangrels in Mistform encountering mustard gas are in the Vampire the Masquerade 2nd Edition WW1 sourcebook "Tides of Blood" where it clearly states that such an unfortunate vampire will instantly revert to physical form and spontaneously combust whilst violently spewing caustic blood within a 5-foot radius, all the while reciting Carmen's Habanera in german and sprouting small and grotesque-looking, but pleasant smelling, water lilies out of their bum holes. Yes, the above is made up, all of it. But still! There are rules Stork!!!! Just not for every single situation... though there totally should be rules for Gangrels in mistform encountering mustard gas cuz that would be BADASS!!! Ths reminds me of an awesome article from Dragon magazine about using cursed or less-than-optimal items for maximum benefit. Thief + stealth + hat of stupidity or helm of opposite alignment + evil overlord -- win. Decanter of endless water wrecks vampires and their summoned minions and probably plays havoc on their gaseous form too... etc
|
|
|
Post by RudeAlert on Jun 24, 2017 13:49:51 GMT -8
Alright, regarding the whole White Wolf / Onyx Path editions treadmill, it is true that things got a bit hectic there, but keep in mind that there are essentially two version of the World of Darkness in concurrent production, from two different companies no less. Also the 20th Anniversary editions were never meant to be entire new "editions," they were initially supposed to be just one big, compilation book for each game line as slightly updated, cleaned up, compiled versions mostly just for old fans and collectors. However, they were so insanely successful that it just made good business sense to give people more material to buy. In fact, the initial V20 was really just supposed to be a one-off thing, at the time there were no plans on a Werewolf 20 or any other "20s," they only made the other "lines" because V20 was so popular and the fans were so eager to get similar books for the other game lines. So the whole 20s are kind of a separate thing. They're only considered an "edition" now because nuWhite Wolf decided to make a new edition of Vampire so they retroactively called V20 a 4th edition. Also, personally I have just about zero interest in V5 or anything coming from nuWhite Wolf at this point, but that's a whole other story. Also, Stu Venable , keep in mind that you are under no obligation to buy every new edition of every game you own anytime one comes out. I'm perfectly pleased with my Vampire 2nd Ed. Revised books from the late 90s/early 00s. Also, the new Wold of Darkness 2nd edition books (now called Chronicles of Darkness for legal reasons that I outlined in a lengthy post a while back) have pretty damn awesome rules and very slow production paces; they aren't churning out supplements every few months so they're likely to stick with those game lines for quite a while. Heck, the Vampire the Requiem 2nd edition core book was first posted on DriveThru in December 2013 and there are currently only two supplement books specifically for that game line. And of the eight 1st edition games of New World of Darkness that came out before they switched to 2nd edition (Chronicles of Darkness) only 4 of them have been updated to Chronicles rules by now... after 3 1/2 years. So if you're worried about having to buy new games all the time, Chronicles of Darkness would be the safest bet, and in terms of rules probably the best choice there as well (that is obviously open to interpretation but I can only speak for myself so that's what I do). Also, to both Stu Venable and stork , yes I know, it got confusing for a bit and unfortunately for those who weren't able to keep up when it happened, yeah the various lines can be kinda muddled. So here's a very brief refresher on that lengthy post I posted a while back. Various "20s" - Currently in production but all meant to be limited runs, and possibly all ending soon given that nuWhite Wolf is planning on reviving the Old World of Darkness. New World of Darkness 1st Ed. - World of Darkness, Vampire the Requiem, Werewolf the Forsaken, Mage the Awakening, Promethean the Created, Changeling the Lost (Fucking awesome!), Hunter the Vigil, Geist the Sin-Eaters, Mummy the Curse. All ended. Chronicles of Darkness (NWoD 2nd Ed.) - Chronicles of Darkness, Vampire the Requiem 2nd, Werewolf the Forsaken 2nd, Mage the Awakening 2nd, Promethean the Created 2nd, Changeling the Lost 2nd (not out), Hunter the Vigil 2nd (not out), Geist the Sin-Eaters 2nd (not out), Mummy the Curse 2nd (not out), Demon the Descent*, Beast the Primordial*. (*The last two came out after the switch to Chronicles of Darkness) Edit: Also, just as an add-on, the fact that you guys got into these games at precisely the wrong time really doesn't help with the confusion. This weird state of affairs has not always been the norm, and once the 20th Anniversary lines are done and V5 and the other 5s (if V5 is successful I expect they won't stop there) are on their way, it should become fairly simple again, it'll just be a choice between World of Darkness (nuWhite Wolf) and Chronicles of Darkness (Onyx Path), which really comes down to personal preference. Also, please don't blame Onyx Path for any of this mess, they were bound up in contracts all the way and still are. If it weren't for the White Wolf company changing hands a few years ago none of this confusion would have happened. Also, Onyx Path is basically just doing Chronicles of Darkness, the 20th Anniversary editions and their own proprietary game lines at this point, which is really not that confusing.
|
|
sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
|
Post by sbloyd on Jun 24, 2017 15:40:26 GMT -8
Maybe we should just get the map of relationships between the various editions stickied in the WoD forum.
Anyhow, about the Sabbat, word from the presentations in Berlin is that the Sabbat and a bunch of the Camarilla elders took off for parts unknown to fight out their own Gehenna. I dont think the Inconnu were mentioned, tho. Pretty much the power struggle of the modern Modern Nights is what is left of the Camarilla against the Anarchs.
Frenzy Dice... are called Hunger Dice. And, yeah, you have to use them. They replace the dice in your normal dice pool (if you have a six die pool for a roll and three hunger dice, you swap three hunger dice in for your pool roll). This can have... unfortunate results, as the Compulsions you get from 1-ing a Hunger Die can be bad (like a Toreador craving sex with a mortal ASAP, whether it is consensual or not).
|
|
|
Post by RudeAlert on Jun 24, 2017 15:49:21 GMT -8
Further along now (can you tell that I tend to write these as I'm listening?), regarding Maire's description of the undesirable features of the V5 playtest... yeah, it's that kind of crap that's making me feel like I want nothing to do with nuWhite Wolf. They have said and done a number of rather distasteful things, in and out of the gaming world, that make me think they're primarily a bunch of teen-minded man-boys who are desperately trying to be "edgy" by pissing and grossing people off. So yeah, no thanks. I've got Onyx Path and Chronicles of Darkness anyways, so I have no use for nuWhite Wolf and their cheap smut.
|
|
|
Post by Wakefield on Jun 24, 2017 18:18:16 GMT -8
Maybe we should just get the map of relationships between the various editions stickied in the WoD forum. I think I may speak for everyone in saying that would be handy to have, sbloyd ! It would be worth a look at least to chart what trends stuck around, or just to satisfy curiosity. Anyhow, about the Sabbat, word from the presentations in Berlin is that the Sabbat and a bunch of the Camarilla elders took off for parts unknown to fight out their own Gehenna. I dont think the Inconnu were mentioned, tho. Pretty much the power struggle of the modern Modern Nights is what is left of the Camarilla against the Anarchs. ...so what's left are conflicts between entrenched, controlling powermongers and rebels desirous of self-rule? I guess if the new system is angling toward playing up personal horror and monstrosity, the Sabbat would make many lapses of control look pardonable by comparison. I suppose I should withhold strong judgment till I hear the whole story, but right now I'm disappointed. With the Sabbat in the mix you would at least have a trio of Kindred factions, which would allow for one group to play the other two against each other or to team up with unlikely allies to foil a greater threat. RudeAlert, have you seen the thread about V5 on the forum? Feel free to chime in there, too, if you'd like.
|
|
sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
|
Post by sbloyd on Jun 24, 2017 18:52:47 GMT -8
...so what's left are conflicts between entrenched, controlling powermongers and rebels desirous of self-rule? I think it all boils down to the new powers-that-be in charge at nuWW desiring a return to the themes "intended" for Vampire 1e, where one of the big themes was the Anarchs vs the Camarilla. The Sabbat were still just a bogeyman at that point.
|
|
|
Post by RudeAlert on Jun 24, 2017 19:24:00 GMT -8
I believe part of the change in the V5 setting is that they want to go with a more "medieval" balkanized feel, where each city/domain is pretty much on its own and mostly independent from massive, centralized power structures. In other words very much like Vampire the Requiem.
|
|
|
Post by jonas on Jun 25, 2017 5:24:10 GMT -8
Thanks for reading my sadness story, Stu Venable. :-D The game wasn't at a con, it was a personal affair with one friend and his (weird) acquaintances. But I'd written it for a con several years prior and could run the adventure on short notice. I'll will write in a letter detailing Scandinavian con-culture someday - it's a different beast than the American flavor. :-)
|
|
fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
|
Post by fredrix on Jun 25, 2017 5:55:06 GMT -8
stork, stork, stork you have to take a chill pill on new editions. Any game that doesn't die within months is eventually going to get a new edition. And generally, they are editions that are improved because of what has he learned in play. But many (not White Wolf games, I'll admit) are actually pretty backwards compatible. You can play pretty much any scenario of any version of a BRP game, with only the tiniest amount of work, because the mechanics are pretty much the same. But more importantly, nothing stops you playing whatever version of the game you prefer, however old it is. Especially you guys who seem to never use commercial scenarios. No-one plays Traveller 5 for example.
|
|
sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
|
Post by sbloyd on Jun 25, 2017 6:15:38 GMT -8
Vampire 5 will take a fair amount of retooling of older material to make it compatible under the new rules, though.
But, yeah... if a publisher doesn't keep putting out material, it dies. So you keep putting out expansions and splats. Eventually you run out of good ideas, and the accumulation of all the changes and stuff from those expansions gets unwieldy. New edition time! And you get to retool all the stuff you released under last edition, and sell it as new material!
This is why GURPS 3e had such a good long run. They had a *lot* of ground they could cover with their expansion material.
|
|
|
Post by ayslyn on Jun 25, 2017 6:33:18 GMT -8
stork, stork, stork you have to take a chill pill on new editions. Any game that doesn't die within months is eventually going to get a new edition. And generally, they are editions that are improved because of what has he learned in play. So very, very much THIS. As time goes on, less and less people buy product for the game. The company really only has two choices. Either put out a new edition or go out of business. Anything else is a roll of the dice, no pun intended. New games are a risk, you produce them when you are on solid footing. When you already have a steady flow of cash. You can't rely on them to keep you afloat. So, you have to revitalize those lines that already provide funds. So, your choices are really, deal with the occasional new edition, or don't get anything at all. Ideally, the company keeps them to a minimum, and ad Fredix mentioned, tries to keep them as backwards compatible as possible. Well actually stork , the rules for Gangrels in Mistform encountering mustard gas are in the Vampire the Masquerade 2nd Edition WW1 sourcebook "Tides of Blood" where it clearly states that such an unfortunate vampire will instantly revert to physical form and spontaneously combust whilst violently spewing caustic blood within a 5-foot radius, all the while reciting Carmen's Habanera in german and sprouting small and grotesque-looking, but pleasant smelling, water lilies out of their bum holes. Yes, the above is made up, all of it. But still! There are rules Stork!!!! Just not for every single situation... though there totally should be rules for Gangrels in mistform encountering mustard gas cuz that would be BADASS!!! Ths reminds me of an awesome article from Dragon magazine about using cursed or less-than-optimal items for maximum benefit. Thief + stealth + hat of stupidity or helm of opposite alignment + evil overlord -- win. Decanter of endless water wrecks vampires and their summoned minions and probably plays havoc on their gaseous form too... etc In an old campaign, we used to save all the cursed weapons we would find. We kept them at our home, on the walls. The closer you were to a window, the more likely the weapon on the wall was cursed, so when a burglar would come along....
|
|
|
Post by RudeAlert on Jun 25, 2017 9:27:54 GMT -8
As an added detail to stork 's edition bashing, let's not forget that the entire Old World of Darkness was published from 1991 to 2003, during which time the first 3 games had three editions, some of the ones that followed had 2, and a few of the latest ones had only 1. So that's up to 3 editions in 12 years. Compared to that, the New World of Darkness was published from 2004 to 2013/15ish, which is about 10ish years, during which time all those games only had one edition. I think it's fair to say that the NWoD was due for a new edition, both for financial reasons as mentioned in posts above, and for rules update reasons, also as mentioned above. As for the 20th Anniversary editions, those were never even really meant to be separate editions, and they kind of aren't, they're really just republished, condensed versions of the latest editions of their respective games. Also, they were primarily published as "Anniversary Editions," essentially love letters to the old fans. The fact that you guys got into the game so late and decided to go with the 20th Anniversary editions is neither White Wolf's nor Onyx Path's fault, you just storked your timing roll. Cuz that's really all it is, this current state of affairs with the World(s) of Darkness is a pretty recent, and temporary, state of affairs. You guys got into this right at the moment that one company was selling White Wolf to another, and Onyx Path was starting work on Chronicles of Darkness, and the new owners of White Wolf decided to make a 5th Edition of Vampire, thus causing the 20th Anniversary lines to be forced to come to an end... You just got unlucky Stork, I thought you would have been used to it by now
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2017 11:55:33 GMT -8
Did anyone else get the sense the crew was treating a symptom, not a problem, when they gave advice to the guy about his WH40k game? Instead of giving him advice about how to put his game back on the rails, why not talk about the bigger issue of why it was there in the first place (or why he let them fail if the only acceptable outcome was success)?
There is a lot of advice to be given about not trapping oneself in a prison of one's own making, but I feel like maybe that's a conversation that should occur after the basics of failure (if its possible, what failure looks like, etc). In a way, deciding that the way to get the info is to rescue the distressed ship is making the decision that failure is possible. If failure is possible, then the only response I can think is to let the consequences fall. If failure was never meant to be possible, then there needs to be a discussion about railroading or putting that kind of information out there in such a way that it doesn't matter what they do. For example, succeed or fail the info will be broadcast in the distress signal before said distressed ship blows up (which it will do if they save the people or not).
|
|
|
Post by chronovore on Jun 25, 2017 19:44:39 GMT -8
On the "Jason Bourne" and Daniel O'Malley topic, on dealing with superspies with amnesia, etc., people might want to check out My Own Worst Enemy, a short-lived but fun TV show. Christian Slater plays an everyman whose identity is completely fabricated, but doesn't know that it's just a deeply embedded set of false memories allowing his real, superspy self to better infiltrate targets. It's a classic fish-out-of-water scenario, coupled with the knowledge that he'll be put down if ANYONE discovers he's broken his programming. It's also a variation on the Jekyll and Hyde story.
|
|