HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Oct 20, 2012 0:59:28 GMT -8
I know The episode hasn't dropped yet, but I just wanted to head off some possible confusion and clarify a few quick things. Just to be clear about one thing right off the bat, Apocalypse World is not a traditional RPG. It's not D&D, or GURPS, or even Savage Worlds in an apocalyptic setting. Your characters don't have boat loads of stats and skills to play with. There are set "Moves" both for the players and GM that set up a clear framework for how to resolve uncertain outcomes, but those moves are very flexible in their application. The game is closer to Fiasco in nature, though more crunchy. Make no mistake, it's one of those new fangled "story games" where the players and MC work together to tell a collaborative story. The dice inform the direction of the fiction rather than try to simulate anything. There's no combat turns, and many smaller rules that would have mechanics in other systems are dictated by "common fucking sense" (as Vincent Baker would probably put it). Full disclosure, my game of Apocalypse World died after only 3 sessions because my group didn't like the "lets build the setting as our character's explore it" element. CADave is right. The tremulus KickStarter project that just finished up is a "hack" of Apocalypse World, modifying it into a Call of Cthulhu type setting. There are a whole slew of spin offs derived from the game. MonsterHearts - play teenage monsters, like Buffy, Vampire Diaries, and True Blood; Dungeon World - old school D&D ( JiB actually played this at a recent con); Monster of the Week - play monster hunters, like Buffy, Supernatural and X-Files; tremulus - play Call of Chtulhu style Lovecraft horror game; and Saga of the Icelanders - which is still on IndieGoGo and about 10th century vikings. When I said the book is peppered with profanity, I wasn't joking. The whole book is written mostly "in world" - meaning from the perspective of someone living in the Apocalypse World setting. The speaker drops f-bombs the way someone with a bad case of dandruff drops skin flakes. Seriously. Another thing some people find really off putting is the Sex Moves. Yes, each playbook (think character class or archetype) has a specific Sex Move that triggers whenever the character has sex with another character (whether PC or NPC). It's not a move describing the sex act though. It's a mechanical effect to simulate the fact that sex always complicates the relationship between two people. It's rules that dictate and inform what happens after two people have been that intimate with each other. Some people hear "Sex Move" and think it's the actual act of fucking. It's not. It's just another way to complicate the character's lives and create the messy, fucked up situations that generate awesome, charged situations. Stu will probably like this game since there is absolutely no requirement for the PCs to work together. Bickering, passive aggressive bullshit, and even outright fighting between the PCs is almost expected.
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Post by jazzisblues on Oct 20, 2012 5:27:02 GMT -8
I have played the Dungeon World hack of Apocalypse World, it's a very very fun game. Like most of the games we play, it benefits from having the right mix of players.
Gina has played Apocalypse World and said very favorable things about the system.
JiB
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Oct 20, 2012 23:24:53 GMT -8
Gina has played Apocalypse World and said very favorable things about the system. I think the system is great. I'm as big a fanboy of Apocalypse World and it's derivative games as JiB is of Savage Worlds. ;D Sorry to keep posting about it (as I said, I'm a fanboy), but even if you don't play Apocalypse World, it's worth picking up the PDF just for the GMing advice it contains. When you first read the book, it's kind of hard to wrap your head around how the GM is meant to run the game. As I said in my email, Vincent Baker presents everything in a very authoritative tone, which some people don't like. But if you get past that, you realize everything he instructs the MC to do during a game of AW is the same thing that good GMs do regardless of the game. He just codifies it and presents it as a series of "To Do" lists that the GM is meant to follow.
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Post by jazzisblues on Oct 21, 2012 8:09:08 GMT -8
Gina has played Apocalypse World and said very favorable things about the system. I think the system is great. I'm as big a fanboy of Apocalypse World and it's derivative games as JiB is of Savage Worlds. ;D Sorry to keep posting about it (as I said, I'm a fanboy), but even if you don't play Apocalypse World, it's worth picking up the PDF just for the GMing advice it contains. When you first read the book, it's kind of hard to wrap your head around how the GM is meant to run the game. As I said in my email, Vincent Baker presents everything in a very authoritative tone, which some people don't like. But if you get past that, you realize everything he instructs the MC to do during a game of AW is the same thing that good GMs do regardless of the game. He just codifies it and presents it as a series of "To Do" lists that the GM is meant to follow. I have but with a cursitory eye o're looked the articles in question. My knowledge of how the game works is based on playing three games of Dungeon World and talking with Gina who has played Dungeon World more than I have and has played Apocalypse World which I have yet to play. I enjoyed Dungeon World a great deal ... I would like to play more of it. JiB
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jfever
Journeyman Douchebag
FEVAH!!!!
Posts: 218
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Post by jfever on Oct 21, 2012 13:48:39 GMT -8
I like the song in the beginning. Old school.
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Post by greatwyrm on Oct 21, 2012 16:48:17 GMT -8
There was an older WWF roleplaying game. I never had a copy, but by all accounts it was pretty bad.
However, there was a newer one as well -- WWE Know Your Role -- I got to be a playtester on. It came out a few years ago and did a pretty good job of giving the feel of WWE style wrestling.
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Oct 22, 2012 11:02:58 GMT -8
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jfever
Journeyman Douchebag
FEVAH!!!!
Posts: 218
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Post by jfever on Oct 22, 2012 12:59:30 GMT -8
The original WWF system was absolute shit. It was an exercise in dice rolling, and role playing in that system became boring real fast. My group played it for one night and scraped it. Which was sad, because we were all hardcore old school wrestling fans.
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Post by bloodsparrow on Oct 23, 2012 7:42:48 GMT -8
I agree that the nature of the thing changes when the maps and the minis come out but I don't think roleplay stops... At least not in my experience. While I do love the occasional Beautiful Map ( case in point (shameless plug for a friend)), I prefer it when the map is drawn out on a battle mat in an abstract way. That way everybody sees where the buildings, rocks, trees, person-being-cooked-Tandori-style, etc. is but you still engage your imagination to picture what it all actually looks like. Some of the best role playing moments that I've experienced and witnessed were during combat on drawn out maps. Or with minis that were... conceptual at best... (I really wish I had taken pictures when my friend Shawn made minis for a flock of cloakers that attacked the party once... So funny at first but they got the job done and it didn't take long before we took those little dudes very seriously. Not that our DMs didn't occasionally go all out. On the subject of Harry Potter vs LotR... I would say they are equally tiresome and I finished neither series. On the subject of JK Rowling ripping off Books of Magic, I can see the similarities but I would also suggest you take a look at the 1986 movie "Troll".
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Post by Kainguru on Oct 23, 2012 10:27:23 GMT -8
Before commercial battle mats were popular . . . Back in [shakey voice] the olden days . . . We used to just sketch an abstract of the combat on big bits of paper. The rest was minds eye with any ambiguities being clarified by the abstracts on the paper as well as any questions of range. Hell we didn't even use mini's - good alcohol money on mini's? Never (besides they were illegal in Queensland Australia for years because of the lead content . . . So one would have to pay even more to get them interstate mail order and that meant sight unseen until delivery). How did we compensate? First letter of characters name in a circle . . . Job done . . . If it got to messy with everyone moving around we just turned the paper over and started again (then we got those cardboard faux whiteboards people used for fridge memos and we were really set). As a consequence I never really understood all the fuss over mini's . . . No matter how close a mini came to looking like you imagined your character to be they were never 'quite right'. Ral Partha mini's were very nice and I enjoyed seeing a diorama with them but never thought that those dioramas (for fear of disturbing them) should be aides in actual play.
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Post by jazzisblues on Oct 23, 2012 11:57:44 GMT -8
As everyone (should) know(s) I am very fond of miniatures. Painting them, collecting them, giving them away to players, and yes even using them for combat.
I know beyond all shadow of a doubt that other people's mileage will vary. What I have witnessed, and this is purely anecdotal on my part, I have no hard evidence to support it, is that often when the minis and the battlemat come out the game changes from being a role playing game to being a tactical miniatures game. Not always, and not necessarily for everyone, but for a noteworthy portion of the people I have played with.
I'm not even saying that's necessarily a bad thing. But, in my experience it does tend to inhibit roleplaying. That said, anything that makes the players more aware that they are people playing a game rather than characters slaying a dragon tends to reduce the level of role play going on.
I have been experimenting in a non-scientific fashion with alternately using and not using battle mats and miniatures for combat. My purely anecdotal evidence tends to support my premise, but I have no doubt that it is wildly varied in outcome.
Cheers,
JiB
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Benji
Journeyman Douchebag
Alea iacta est
Posts: 176
Preferred Game Systems: Pathfinder, Savage Worlds, V20, D&D 3.5, Castles & Crusades, Monsters & Other Childish Things, Little Fears, TFOS
Currently Playing: Not a damn thing
Currently Running: Pathfinder, Savage Worlds
Favorite Species of Monkey: Cebuella pygmaea
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Post by Benji on Oct 23, 2012 14:22:59 GMT -8
As everyone (should) know(s) I am very fond of miniatures. Painting them, collecting them, giving them away to players, and yes even using them for combat. I know beyond all shadow of a doubt that other people's mileage will vary. What I have witnessed, and this is purely anecdotal on my part, I have no hard evidence to support it, is that often when the minis and the battlemat come out the game changes from being a role playing game to being a tactical miniatures game. Not always, and not necessarily for everyone, but for a noteworthy portion of the people I have played with. I'm not even saying that's necessarily a bad thing. But, in my experience it does tend to inhibit roleplaying. That said, anything that makes the players more aware that they are people playing a game rather than characters slaying a dragon tends to reduce the level of role play going on. I have been experimenting in a non-scientific fashion with alternately using and not using battle mats and miniatures for combat. My purely anecdotal evidence tends to support my premise, but I have no doubt that it is wildly varied in outcome. Cheers, JiB I've had similar experiences before. When combat actions were played out without the use of battlemats, they tended to evoke tales of heroic struggles filled with lurid descriptions of wounds taken, desperate attacks and stoic defenders. When the battlemat and miniatures were used by the very same group, it became more tactical in nature and lost some of the theatrical feel. It was all about how many squares you could move and still attack, what the diameter of the fireball was and maneuvering to be out of the archers’ line of sight. While perfectly acceptable, this sometimes had all the excitement of a filling out a tax return. Then again I've had other groups (such as the D&D game which sadly died due to scheduling problems) that still roleplayed through combat. We used a battlemat and still managed to evoke vivid descriptions of pitched battles to the point the physical representation of the battle became secondary. So secondary that when everyone cheered at the end of a particularly hard fought encounter, they knocked all the miniatures over. I didn't mind that happening to the Pathfinder pre-painted miniatures. It was the fate of my hand-painted miniatures that made me twitch.
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Post by ericfromnj on Oct 23, 2012 15:25:00 GMT -8
We played an old FASERIP Marvel Super Heroes game where I swear there were about 40+ combatants on the board.
They had those mats that were supposed to be parts of NYC where most people moved 3 areas. Very abstract. Our characters were represented by various dice and the character sheets had written the die that represented them: "Large Yellow D6" "Small Speckly Blue D20" "Ugly Green D12".
It was this insane weekend of people talking in super hero and super villain voices going after a Black Box I swear my GM lifted straight from the game Paranoia...
...it was awesome...
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Post by ericfromnj on Oct 23, 2012 15:27:15 GMT -8
...you guys never drank Young's Chocolate Stout before this podcast? ?? Stu, could you make a list of what beers you have actually tried so that 1) I can recommend some stuff we get over on the east coast and 2)I can figure out how much harder I can laugh at you for calling a White Russian a "girly drink."
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Post by ericfromnj on Oct 23, 2012 15:27:33 GMT -8
and uh, yeah.
flame wars.
sorry.
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