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Mote 27
Jun 10, 2017 15:36:28 GMT -8
Post by sovereigncitizenkane on Jun 10, 2017 15:36:28 GMT -8
Yeah I know that, but if you rematerialize, you are technically not in mist state, and once solid, wouldn't that count as an attack? What I was saying is that for my interpretation, you couldn't get into another person to re-materialize in the first place. The act of trying to get inside of another person while in mist form would be an attack, and since you can't attack in mist form you wouldn't be able to get in there. But again, that's just my interpretation. And I have no knowledge of it appearing in earlier editions. Sorry, man. stork I've seen the possibility of using mist form in this manner around the WW/OP boards before but I've never actually seen it as a mechanical rule. Compiling everything that I've seen on it, including from people that helped compile V20, is that it is not a considered an attack. The idea of not being able to attack revolves around you can't just fill someone airway up with your misty body and it strangles them, or some maneuver there of. Re-materializing is simply that, but you've got no room to expand, so you're doing aggravated damage to the victim (before it gets argued, massive damage can also be aggravated, likely on the theory of not having to rule ridiculous amounts of lethal damage) and you're taking lethal damage, at minimum, every round that you're trying to expand within the victim. Sorry that I can't offer more help than that Stork. I just have never personally seen it outside of forums.
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Mote 27
Jun 10, 2017 15:40:55 GMT -8
Post by sovereigncitizenkane on Jun 10, 2017 15:40:55 GMT -8
stork Oh one more idea. If you ever need to back up another vampire, they don't need to breath so you could hide inside them.
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Mote 27
Jun 10, 2017 15:46:06 GMT -8
Post by Probie Tim on Jun 10, 2017 15:46:06 GMT -8
Compiling everything that I've seen on it, including from people that helped compile V20, is that it is not a considered an attack. So then, game mechanically speaking, how does it work? If it's not an attack, the victim then can't abort to dodge or take a defensive action. So it just... happens? If that's the case, why aren't the Gangrel just... running everything? "The Prince glares at you balefully." "I turn into mist form, drift into his nostrils and into his lungs, and then materialize." "Ok, the Prince is dead. Again. What's that... nine domains you've claimed now?" The idea of not being able to attack revolves around you can't just fill someone airway up with your misty body and it strangles them, or some maneuver there of. I'm not following this. It's not an attack because you can't do it period? Is that what you're saying?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Mote 27
Jun 10, 2017 15:51:30 GMT -8
Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2017 15:51:30 GMT -8
stork Those rules you are looking for are in VtR 2nd ed. From the fifth dot of protean:L VtR also has other ways you can do similar things. With three dots of protean you can get the merit "swarm Form" which allows something similar. Per swarm form:
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Mote 27
Jun 10, 2017 15:58:26 GMT -8
Post by sovereigncitizenkane on Jun 10, 2017 15:58:26 GMT -8
Compiling everything that I've seen on it, including from people that helped compile V20, is that it is not a considered an attack. So then, game mechanically speaking, how does it work? If it's not an attack, the victim then can't abort to dodge or take a defensive action. So it just... happens? If that's the case, why aren't the Gangrel just... running everything? "The Prince glares at you balefully." "I turn into mist form, drift into his nostrils and into his lungs, and then materialize." "Ok, the Prince is dead. Again. What's that... nine domains you've claimed now?" The idea of not being able to attack revolves around you can't just fill someone airway up with your misty body and it strangles them, or some maneuver there of. I'm not following this. It's not an attack because you can't do it period? Is that what you're saying? Should have included, the mechanics. I'm currently splitting my attention watching the Wire. Its a roll off between Stamina or Strength for the victim, vs Strength rolls of the "attacker". So similar to grapple rules, with the loser of the contest taking damage until one explodes or is crushed. It's certainly not perfect as its just, "here's some slapdash rules for something we didn't think about" Second part I'll try to be more clear on. The interpretation I'm seeing and going with is that the clarification of "you can't attack in mist form" is simply a measure taken to say, you're mist and that's all there is to it. You're not going to suffocate in mist because it's mist and there aren't any loop holes in disciplines to allow you to attack while you're in mist form and immune to attacks. Re-materializing is separate from that. You are vulnerable again and can take damage from re-materializing inside something. Which is why Gangrel aren't just ruling things. You're playing Russian Roulette by doing it. Hopefully that was more clear.
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Mote 27
Jun 10, 2017 16:09:41 GMT -8
Post by Probie Tim on Jun 10, 2017 16:09:41 GMT -8
Its a roll off between Stamina or Strength for the victim, vs Strength rolls of the "attacker". So similar to grapple rules, with the loser of the contest taking damage until one explodes or is crushed. It's certainly not perfect as its just, "here's some slapdash rules for something we didn't think about" Hmm. I wouldn't allow it. If you can't attack a physical being, you shouldn't be able to make a strength roll against a physical being. Do you have an official WW/OP source on this? Or is this just something you read on their forums somewhere?
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Mote 27
Jun 10, 2017 16:16:16 GMT -8
Post by sovereigncitizenkane on Jun 10, 2017 16:16:16 GMT -8
@stevensw stork The Masquerade version of Swarm Form is in the Gangrel section of Lore of the Clans. Unfortunately it' a Seventh level Discipline. I would personal rule it would be fine at level five.
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Mote 27
Jun 10, 2017 16:26:22 GMT -8
Post by sovereigncitizenkane on Jun 10, 2017 16:26:22 GMT -8
Its a roll off between Stamina or Strength for the victim, vs Strength rolls of the "attacker". So similar to grapple rules, with the loser of the contest taking damage until one explodes or is crushed. It's certainly not perfect as its just, "here's some slapdash rules for something we didn't think about" Hmm. I wouldn't allow it. If you can't attack a physical being, you shouldn't be able to make a strength roll against a physical being. Do you have an official WW/OP source on this? Or is this just something you read on their forums somewhere? The topic shows up every now and then. It can be found on the archives of the original WW forum and some in the OP ones. I thought I'd mentioned it wasn't "official" but people like Eddy Webb and Rose Bailey have weighed in from time to time. I see where you're coming from, and I would respect any ruling you had on it, it's just when I would rule on it, I'm seeing the damage as something separate from the mist form. That separation makes sense in my mind. But I do get where you're coming from with it. I had to make a similar call with someone trying to kill an Ogre with Mage Hand once. Regardless, It's going to be one of those things that's up to the Storyteller at the time.
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Mote 27
Jun 10, 2017 18:17:04 GMT -8
Post by Starteller on Jun 10, 2017 18:17:04 GMT -8
Yeah I know that, but if you rematerialize, you are technically not in mist state, and once solid, wouldn't that count as an attack? Course I would think the vampire would take damage too. Again, this started with a conversation with Kurt who said he read it in an earlier book. My question really was if this actually was in an earlier edition, and if so, how was it adjudicated? The problem is your "once solid". You are not solid yet your mist power is still ON and you are doing damage AND also without doing damage to you and it is you that is trying to materialize. YOU are the one who should be killed by trying to do that. If I was GM I would warn you then give you 1 bashing damage then 1 lethal then 1 aggravated and made the enemy only cough you out since you are just mist. With the same trick, you would be able to move objects.
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Mote 27
Jun 10, 2017 18:53:41 GMT -8
Post by sovereigncitizenkane on Jun 10, 2017 18:53:41 GMT -8
Yeah I know that, but if you rematerialize, you are technically not in mist state, and once solid, wouldn't that count as an attack? Course I would think the vampire would take damage too. Again, this started with a conversation with Kurt who said he read it in an earlier book. My question really was if this actually was in an earlier edition, and if so, how was it adjudicated? The problem is your "once solid". You are not solid yet your mist power is still ON and you are doing damage AND also without doing damage to you and it is you that is trying to materialize. YOU are the one who should be killed by trying to do that. If I was GM I would warn you then give you 1 bashing damage then 1 lethal then 1 aggravated and made the enemy only cough you out since you are just mist. With the same trick, you would be able to move objects. I would agree if you were human, but Vampires are more resilient. Humans can't soak lethal but Vampires can. Gangrel are even more hardy with Fortitude and if they're high enough Generation, Skin of Marble. Back to the Dragon's Breath Rounds, I figure a caveat would be that you might be able to have a dodge with them as they're not going to be as fast, as normal ammo. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. Which reminds me, Stu Venable firearms attacks can't be negated with a Dodge action. If you take a Dodge action in a firefight you move to cover which adds to the difficulty as per the Cover rules on pg 278 of the Core book. I will note that in Requiem 2e, Celerity provides a penalty to firearms, being that it's about superspeed.
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Mote 27
Jun 14, 2017 21:13:55 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by Wakefield on Jun 14, 2017 21:13:55 GMT -8
Just finished listening to the episode. What an action-packed return to the series! The Moties are going to have their hands full with an old-world elder declaring Praxis, yeesh.
Speaking of that particular poop hitting the fan, am I right in thinking that the Nosferatu claimant diablerized Daniel? The episode ends with the claimant feeding upon him, but Stu made no mention of Daniel turning into ash or remains, so I was just curious.
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shinigamitwo
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 45
Preferred Game Systems: oWoD, Deadlands, D&D
Currently Playing: Deadlands HOE Classic - The Doctor Rides Agin!
Currently Running: Vampire 20th Anniversary
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Mote 27
Jun 19, 2017 14:53:32 GMT -8
Post by shinigamitwo on Jun 19, 2017 14:53:32 GMT -8
So a question and a comment.
Question: You can spend willpower on soak? Where-the-what-now!? Am I missing a line somewhere or is this just a they don't say no kind of thinking?
Statement: Another possible thought to the back and forth of Mistlung the Destroyer, namely what I've done when my Gangrels have gotten uppity. The Gangrel will need space equal to his final form available to them before they can reform, if you are dumb enough to end up in the airtight Hoover then you are stuck. This is even though it is made of plastic and something you could easily destroy otherwise. Why? Because you are mist until you stop being mist and the mist cannot hurt anything. I did not view it as a slow solidification, more like the burst out fully formed of Protean 3 and Athena fame. This meant that they could only really attack Vozhd with that kind of silliness, which they did.
Also, I feel the chatroom needs it's attention card pulled since no one yelled that guns are Halved Bashing Damage to vampires! Bad Chatroom, BAD! *bops (assumed to be) currently empty chatroom with a rolled up newspaper*
Edit - Immediately after hitting post I had the following though chain and had to share.
Thought one - You know that if they can be caught by a Hoover that paper bags could hold a Gangrel. Thought two - Just imagine, some Malkavian with a collection of bottled and bagged Gangrels. Thought three (The reason I must share) - Wait, Get one of those big ass balloons, maybe shaped like a shark, mist form in. POP! DOOM BALLOON!
The thought of several sneaky Gangrels hidden in balloons was just too good to not share.
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Mote 27
Jun 19, 2017 16:52:54 GMT -8
Post by sbloyd on Jun 19, 2017 16:52:54 GMT -8
Who ya gonna call? GANGRELBUSTERS!
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Mote 27
Jun 19, 2017 18:19:02 GMT -8
Post by stork on Jun 19, 2017 18:19:02 GMT -8
So a question and a comment. Question: You can spend willpower on soak? Where-the-what-now!? Am I missing a line somewhere or is this just a they don't say no kind of thinking? Statement: Another possible thought to the back and forth of Mistlung the Destroyer, namely what I've done when my Gangrels have gotten uppity. The Gangrel will need space equal to his final form available to them before they can reform, if you are dumb enough to end up in the airtight Hoover then you are stuck. This is even though it is made of plastic and something you could easily destroy otherwise. Why? Because you are mist until you stop being mist and the mist cannot hurt anything. I did not view it as a slow solidification, more like the burst out fully formed of Protean 3 and Athena fame. This meant that they could only really attack Vozhd with that kind of silliness, which they did. Also, I feel the chatroom needs it's attention card pulled since no one yelled that guns are Halved Bashing Damage to vampires! Bad Chatroom, BAD! *bops (assumed to be) currently empty chatroom with a rolled up newspaper* Edit - Immediately after hitting post I had the following though chain and had to share. Thought one - You know that if they can be caught by a Hoover that paper bags could hold a Gangrel. Thought two - Just imagine, some Malkavian with a collection of bottled and bagged Gangrels. Thought three (The reason I must share) - Wait, Get one of those big ass balloons, maybe shaped like a shark, mist form in. POP! DOOM BALLOON! The thought of several sneaky Gangrels hidden in balloons was just too good to not share.
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Mote 27
Jun 19, 2017 21:45:58 GMT -8
Post by sovereigncitizenkane on Jun 19, 2017 21:45:58 GMT -8
Also, I feel the chatroom needs it's attention card pulled since no one yelled that guns are Halved Bashing Damage to vampires! Bad Chatroom, BAD! *bops (assumed to be) currently empty chatroom with a rolled up newspaper* We bring it up and they forget. It's forgivable. Hell, half the reason I remember most of these rules is because I've been playing the game for 18 years. And I wasn't having huge breaks in between games.
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