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Mote 27
Jun 19, 2017 22:01:06 GMT -8
Post by Wakefield on Jun 19, 2017 22:01:06 GMT -8
Edit - Immediately after hitting post I had the following though chain and had to share. Thought one - You know that if they can be caught by a Hoover that paper bags could hold a Gangrel. Thought two - Just imagine, some Malkavian with a collection of bottled and bagged Gangrels. Thought three (The reason I must share) - Wait, Get one of those big ass balloons, maybe shaped like a shark, mist form in. POP! DOOM BALLOON! The thought of several sneaky Gangrels hidden in balloons was just too good to not share. My friend had a similar idea involving hurling a Tzimisce in bloodform inside a Ziploc bag.
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Mote 27
Jun 19, 2017 22:30:40 GMT -8
Post by sovereigncitizenkane on Jun 19, 2017 22:30:40 GMT -8
Edit - Immediately after hitting post I had the following though chain and had to share. Thought one - You know that if they can be caught by a Hoover that paper bags could hold a Gangrel. Thought two - Just imagine, some Malkavian with a collection of bottled and bagged Gangrels. Thought three (The reason I must share) - Wait, Get one of those big ass balloons, maybe shaped like a shark, mist form in. POP! DOOM BALLOON! The thought of several sneaky Gangrels hidden in balloons was just too good to not share. My friend had a similar idea involving hurling a Tzimisce in bloodform inside a Ziploc bag. Some old grandmother vampire has a pantry full of canned Tzimisces
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Mote 27
Jun 21, 2017 18:10:33 GMT -8
Post by RudeAlert on Jun 21, 2017 18:10:33 GMT -8
The whole "reflected mirror sunlight onto an Antediluvian" thing - and keep in mind, I'm Mister Mage Fanboy - is BS. I actually thing that's frikin awesome, and I'm both a Vampire and Mage fan.
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Mote 27
Jun 21, 2017 18:24:21 GMT -8
Post by RudeAlert on Jun 21, 2017 18:24:21 GMT -8
Did I hear right? 40 high generation neonates at minimum? LA suddenly doesn't have a homeless problem with all that feeding. It's time to petition the Camarilla. This is why Justicars and Archons exist. For when Princes go nuts. Stu Venable stork Any weapon can kill a vampire...eventually. Firearms do bashing damage to vampires unless you target the head, but once your damage track is full, damage begins to upgrade. So bashing becomes lethal, and lethal becomes aggravated. This works for rollover damage as well. So if you get ten bashing after soak, you end up the first three boxes converting to lethal. Also, once blood is in the system, ghoul or vampire, it's their vitae. Feeding from them doesn't blood doesn't blood bond you to their Sire or Regnant. This. Hell, you could beat a vampire to death with your fists if you wanted, it's just gonna take a ridiculously long time, during which the vampire in question will most likely have murderized you to death five times before you hit the ground. Also, Stu Venable the reason Vampires automatically lose 1 Humanity when they Diablerize someone is because they literally just devoured, and thus destroyed, someone's FUCKING SOUL! That's like murder X 10 or something. There's no way to rationalize that. Kinda related to that, stork I can't keep track of how often you say "I think that's up to the GM" or something to that effect.... no it's not! The game actually has rules, and they're pretty comprehensive too. Most of the things you need to do in the game are already pretty well covered by the rules somewhere. But you need to have read them to know that... and be able to remember them after having read them, which I know with your old brains isn't always easy. But seriously, Vampire the Masquerade isn't 90% GM fiat, it's not an OSR game. It does have rules, you just have to know them. Also, I do realize that the 20th Anniversary editions may not be the easiest entry points into the World of Darkness, the books are pretty massive and extensive in depth and breath. But make a damn effort you old farts! Back in my day we didn't have no fancy chatrooms and forums telling us how to play the game, we had to figure it out our own damn selves, barefoot, on our knees, in gravel, uphill, in freezing winter, with fuckin wild wolves hounding us the whole damn way!!!
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Mote 27
Jun 21, 2017 19:37:13 GMT -8
Post by RudeAlert on Jun 21, 2017 19:37:13 GMT -8
Random thought, stork made a joke about Stu Venable being such a hypochondriac that just talking about dust makes him cough. But are you still a hypochondriac if you actually do always get sick? It's like, if everybody really is out to kill you, then you're not paranoid, you're just right. So if you do always get sick, you're not a hypochondriac, you're just... Stu.
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Mote 27
Jun 21, 2017 21:02:42 GMT -8
Post by Stu Venable on Jun 21, 2017 21:02:42 GMT -8
I have a shit immune system. In fact, I recently had a 72 pin allergy scratch test, and my allergist say after looking at my back that I'm "allergic to nature." I'm allergic to every pollen they tested (+3 +4 and one +5).
I *do* try to learn the rules, but I'm sorry, the V20 book is an organizational nightmare. No, that's overstating it. It's annoyingly big and diverse. The problem is, often certain rules are one mention in a paragraph in a chapter about something else. By this point, I probably have read the entire book, but my retention is not what it used to be, though when I do discover we've been doing something wrong, I note it.
That said, I'm not a fan of stopping everything and pouring through the book to find the exact way to resolve something. I'd rather come up with something that's probably close and keep playing.
And if you compound that with the fact that people are watching/listening, having 10 minutes of silence while I'm reading is bad radio to say the least.
To me, learning the rules set is a work in progress. When I first started running GURPS we did all kinds of things wrong (I know! Big surprise ;-)
I'd read more between sessions, and at the beginning of the next session say, "hey guys, look what I found!" And then we start playing a little closers to RAW. Eventually we got there, but it literally took years playing weekly. And that was 2nd Ed GURPS, which was two relatively thin books.
In my Onenote for V20, I have entries for all the rules we've done wrong, in a way I can find them quickly, and when I have an entry, we usually do it right.
That said, I WANT to know when we do something wrong. It flattens the learning curve. Remember though, both Stork and I got out of gaming right around the time WW published their first game. By the time we got back into gaming OWoD had been published, revised, revised again and retired, and replaced with NWoD about 4 years before we got back into gaming. So we'll never know as much as people who followed the game from its inception, as we were too busy singing dirty songs and killing brain cells with beer when the game was originally published.
Also, why hasn't anyone mentioned that we're not running initiative RaW? All the players are supposed to declare their actions at the top of the round and make willpower rolls to change what they want to do (or abort to defenses) when the situation changes.
I've talked to a few long-time WoD players and GMs and none of them do this. Does anyone?
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Mote 27
Jun 21, 2017 21:27:30 GMT -8
Post by sovereigncitizenkane on Jun 21, 2017 21:27:30 GMT -8
Stu Venable Honestly, I've never played with a group that plays initiative RaW. It's overly complex and slows combat down to a crawl. I talked a group into trying it out and everyone hated it. I also prefer Demon's version of additional actions where rather than coming at the end, your next action moves to the next turn in initiative. If you started on initiative 7, and you get two additional actions they occur on 6 and 5, rather than how celerity happens at the end, but that's my personal preference. V20 is a bit of a pain to learn as its got so much content from not just the old core books but a lot of supplemental stuff as well. Only reason I remember most of these rules is because I started running it at 13 and it was my first ever system to run. Hell our first story arc, I barely got anything right. I was allowing a defensive action against every attack without having to abort their action. You guys are having fun, which is always the most important in my book. I only add to these threads since everyone has a desire to learn. Hail Stu
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Mote 27
Jun 22, 2017 4:41:07 GMT -8
Post by ayslyn on Jun 22, 2017 4:41:07 GMT -8
It's like, if everybody really is out to kill you, then you're not paranoid, you're just right. Actually, you are.... It's just justified paranoia. Delusion isn't necessarily a part of the pathology. Whereas it is with Hypochondria.
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Mote 27
Jun 22, 2017 9:35:42 GMT -8
Post by RudeAlert on Jun 22, 2017 9:35:42 GMT -8
I have a shit immune system. In fact, I recently had a 72 pin allergy scratch test, and my allergist say after looking at my back that I'm "allergic to nature." I'm allergic to every pollen they tested (+3 +4 and one +5). I *do* try to learn the rules, but I'm sorry, the V20 book is an organizational nightmare. No, that's overstating it. It's annoyingly big and diverse. The problem is, often certain rules are one mention in a paragraph in a chapter about something else. By this point, I probably have read the entire book, but my retention is not what it used to be, though when I do discover we've been doing something wrong, I note it. That said, I'm not a fan of stopping everything and pouring through the book to find the exact way to resolve something. I'd rather come up with something that's probably close and keep playing. And if you compound that with the fact that people are watching/listening, having 10 minutes of silence while I'm reading is bad radio to say the least. To me, learning the rules set is a work in progress. When I first started running GURPS we did all kinds of things wrong (I know! Big surprise ;-) I'd read more between sessions, and at the beginning of the next session say, "hey guys, look what I found!" And then we start playing a little closers to RAW. Eventually we got there, but it literally took years playing weekly. And that was 2nd Ed GURPS, which was two relatively thin books. In my Onenote for V20, I have entries for all the rules we've done wrong, in a way I can find them quickly, and when I have an entry, we usually do it right. That said, I WANT to know when we do something wrong. It flattens the learning curve. Remember though, both Stork and I got out of gaming right around the time WW published their first game. By the time we got back into gaming OWoD had been published, revised, revised again and retired, and replaced with NWoD about 4 years before we got back into gaming. So we'll never know as much as people who followed the game from its inception, as we were too busy singing dirty songs and killing brain cells with beer when the game was originally published. Also, why hasn't anyone mentioned that we're not running initiative RaW? All the players are supposed to declare their actions at the top of the round and make willpower rolls to change what they want to do (or abort to defenses) when the situation changes. I've talked to a few long-time WoD players and GMs and none of them do this. Does anyone? Holy fuck dude! Sorry for the immune system... or lack thereof. Actually, if you're allergic to everything doesn't that technically mean that you have an insanely powerful, hyperactive immune system? Maybe you're a mutant Stu!!! Sucks to have that mutation though. And hey, I'm totally cool with you guys not knowing all the rules, I get it, especially with the V20 book. My gripe wasn't so much about you guys getting rules wrong (also it's not that much of a gripe, more of an aggressive, humorous observation), but more specifically about Stork so often (and very quickly) defaulting to "It must be GM fiat." I get that it's a big book and the rules aren't very well presented, that's kind of always been a thing with White Wolf books. It's just that as a fan of the games, it's a little bit irksome when someone keeps assuming that the game seems to have virtually no rules beyond the most basic stuff. However badly presented and spread out they may be, there are rules in this game. If you don't know them all by heart and have to default to GM fiat on the spot, that's totally fine, just please stop assuming that the game is nothing but GM calls. It is a fully designed, well constructed game, just not well laid out. Also, regarding the timing thing, I got into WoD books only around 1999-2000 and I only played a handful of games over a period of maybe 2-3ish years. So my actual gaming experience dates back to roughly 15 years ago... sooooo... I dunno, maybe I'm a mutant too. But my mutation is cooler And regarding the initiative rules, I don't know that anyone ever played the games with that rule, it's just weird and needlessly fiddly. We always just went in order, and if you wanted to take multiple actions you declared that on your turn. Likewise, if you had to take a reactive action (like Dodge) at some point before your turn, that could either be your only action, or become part of a multiple action. Regarding sovereigncitizenkane's mention of how Demon treats multiple actions, I don't even remember that, but I like that a lot more. It actually makes even more sense when using Celerity, a power specifically designed to make you faster.
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Mote 27
Jun 22, 2017 9:59:58 GMT -8
Post by Stu Venable on Jun 22, 2017 9:59:58 GMT -8
My guess is they put Celerity action at the end to allow people who rolled low on initiative to get a turn. In games with powerful PCs (and several dots of Celerity), I could see players getting frustrated that the fight is over before they ever get a turn.
I guess it's a game decision over a simulation decision.
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Mote 27
Jun 22, 2017 10:12:13 GMT -8
Post by RudeAlert on Jun 22, 2017 10:12:13 GMT -8
Hey Stu Venable , since I'm in a "well actually" mood, here's another rules correction. Characters are not limited to increasing their Attributes to one more than their Generation-based maximum. You have to read the WHOLE paragraph to get the full rules. And here it is for your convenience. I've added emphASSis on the part you missed. Also, it's not specifically stated in the book, but I don't think you can spend Willpower on Soak rolls. The rules say that you can spend Willpower on "Action" rolls, I believe Soaking is a reaction and not an action. Also, the GM can disallow Willpower points on some rolls, the book actually suggests that combat rolls, like attacks, might be disallowed. I personally wouldn't do that, but Soak rolls seem kinda hard to justify. On another note, Starteller dude I totally appreciate what you're trying to do in the chat room with rules corrections and all, but buddy you really need to cool off a bit. And this is coming from someone who will mercilessly and ruthlessly correct any mistake they make, but I stick to rules corrections only. What they do in game is up to them, I know you're probably itching to be involved and be in the game too (I know I do) but anything beyond rules corrections frankly comes off as a little condescending. Correct them on rules when they mess up, but aside from that let them play their own game. And then come and give them hell in the forum for all the mistakes they make. That's what I do, and it's damn satisfying. Like this: HEY IDIOTS READ THE FUCKING BOOK!!!!!! NEEEERDRAAAAGGGEEE!!!!! aaaahhhhhhh that felt soooooo gooooood
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Mote 27
Jun 22, 2017 10:39:10 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by sovereigncitizenkane on Jun 22, 2017 10:39:10 GMT -8
RudeAlertThe way that demons handle extra actions is in the errata in Players handbook. I really wish that game had gotten better treatment. It's such an interesting game and they rushed it out the door because they were moving on. Stu Venable I would hazard a guess that'S why as well. Though Celerity is already the nuclear option in the fight. It tends to dominate fights regardless of version. Requiem 2E doesn't have additional actions but it still provides some ridiculous abilities (initiative interrupt, defense against firearms attacks, additional dexterity, etc.). Though Old World makes it an I win, even though V20 made some big changes to it. Used to only cost one blood point to get all of your Celerity actions. Didn't add to Dexterity though.
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Mote 27
Jun 22, 2017 12:09:06 GMT -8
Post by RudeAlert on Jun 22, 2017 12:09:06 GMT -8
Regarding staking... mmmmm stake...
P.280 To stake a vampire, an attacker must target the heart (difficulty 9). If the attack succeeds and inflicts at least three health levels of damage, the target is immobilized. An immobilized victim is conscious (and may use perception powers, such as those in the Auspex Discipline), but may not move or spend blood points.
hehehehehe I'd forgotten about the conscious part, that is sick!
Also, since I'm at that part in the episode, if a human gets staked in the heart and screams in pain.... there's really no need to ACTUALLY SCREAM like a maniac into the mic! Just saying.
Also, minor quibble that I've been meaning to bring up for a while but kept forgetting. It's AntEdiluvian, not AntIdiluvian. "Ante" to rhyme with Aunty not "Anti" to rhyme with Hentai. "Ante" as in preceding or coming before, not "Anti" as in opposing or disliking something. They're named that because they predate the great flood, as in "Noah's Epic Boating Adventure." The important bit is that they were there before the flood and they survived it and are still around and kicking thousands of years later, THAT'S the impressive bit that gave their generation its name. No one gives a shit if they were opposed to the flood or not, I mean they probably didn't like it but that's not really the impressive part. No one's going to name an entire generation of ancient, immortal, undead, godlike superbeings after the fact that they didn't want to get wet.
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Mote 27
Jun 22, 2017 12:59:00 GMT -8
Post by Wakefield on Jun 22, 2017 12:59:00 GMT -8
Also, minor quibble that I've been meaning to bring up for a while but kept forgetting. It's Ant Ediluvian, not Ant Idiluvian. "Ante" to rhyme with Aunty not "Anti" to rhyme with Hentai. "Ante" as in preceding or coming before, not "Anti" as in opposing or disliking something. They're named that because they predate the great flood, as in "Noah's Epic Boating Adventure." The important bit is that they were there before the flood and they survived it and are still around and kicking thousands of years later, THAT'S the impressive bit that gave their generation its name. No one gives a shit if they were opposed to the flood or not, I mean they probably didn't like it but that's not really the impressive part. No one's going to name an entire generation of ancient, immortal, undead, godlike superbeings after the fact that they didn't want to get wet. This bothered me, too, but I'm already such a pedant in real life, so I didn't want to say anything. ^^;; That said, I do love the silliness of activists who campaign against floods not because they're dangerous but because they just don't like the damp.
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Mote 27
Jun 22, 2017 13:03:07 GMT -8
Post by Probie Tim on Jun 22, 2017 13:03:07 GMT -8
I just... I mean... of all the foibles we've had in the Mote, you want to get upset over the pronunciation of a word?
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